Founder and CEO of MicroFame Media, a renowned marketing and strategy agency. With a passion for storytelling and marketing, Schein has established himself as a leading authority in crafting compelling narratives for businesses and individuals.
Writer of "The Hype Handbook: 12 Indispensable Success Secrets from the World's Greatest Propagandists, Self-Promoters, Cult Leaders, Mischief Makers, and Boundary Breakers". In this book, Schein explores the tactics used by influential historical figures and applies them to modern-day marketing and branding strategies.
Key Takeaways
(05:49 - 09:20) From inspiration to entrepreneurship
(09:20 - 12:22) Finding the authentic self and unlocking limitations
(12:22 - 16:20) About the Rolling Stones
(16:20 - 19:40) Takes from Salesforce and Basecamp on Market Differentiation
(19:40 - 26:24) Basecamp's unique view on growth
(26:24 - 36:08) Lessons from Andy Warhol and Gary Vaynerchuk
(36:08 - 41:25) Themes relevant to creating an experience
(41:25 - 43:00) Unveiling the path to growth
(43:00 - 50:28) About AI-driven spread and Elon Musk
(50:28 - 55:40) Types of literature that are influential for bridging concepts
(57:05 - 1:01:22) How to reduce the 'risk of adoption'
(1:01:22 - 1:02:59) The Crucial Role of Language
(1:02:59 - 1:06:18) About the adoption of the ChatGPT narrative
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The Power of Framing
Michael Schein is a writer-turned-entrepreneur who initially harbored no desire for a business career, aspiring instead to be a novelist and musician. Despite pursuing his passion for music and experiencing some unexpected success with his band through theatrical self-promotion, he eventually entered the corporate world, achieving a comfortable position but finding it deeply unfulfilling. This led him to freelance copywriting, where he initially struggled with self-promotion despite his writing skills. Recalling his band's unconventional approach to gaining attention, Schein pivoted his strategy from traditional marketing to "hyping" himself, a method that proved highly successful. This approach formed the foundation of his copywriting practice, which evolved into an agency and ultimately led to him becoming a business owner, now helping others leverage similar attention-drawing techniques to achieve their objectives.
1. From inspiration to entrepreneurship
Alex highlights the inspiring and creative nature of Michael's approach, noting how his "playbooks" encourage others to tap into their authentic journeys to differentiate themselves.
Michael concurs with the importance of personal connection to one's work. He recounts his experience in the contact center industry, where despite achieving professional and financial success, he felt a profound disconnect from his true aspirations. Receiving a raise and bonus only amplified this feeling of being a "loser" for straying so far from his creative inclinations. He emphasizes that his current work, though not in the realms of rock music or novel writing, aligns with his personality and brings him genuine satisfaction daily.
Now, even though I'm not a rock star or a novelist, I love what I do every day because it comes out of my personality traits. — Michael F. Schein
2. Finding the authentic self and unlocking limitations
AS empathizes with individuals in corporate roles who, despite obligations, yearn to connect with their creative instincts, particularly B2B marketers who aspire to be storytellers and visual creators but often feel constrained by outdated practices. AS believes people must seek inspiration, connect with innovative thinkers like Michael, and discover new tools to overcome creative limitations.
Michael concurs, acknowledging that while corporations can offer fulfilling careers, his path into the contact center industry lacked conscious choice and ultimately stifled his creative expression. Despite attempts to personalize his role and collaborate with talented individuals, the rigid corporate structure offered little room for his aspirations. His initial plan to join a creative agency was thwarted by his lack of a portfolio due to his decade in the call center world, forcing him to forge his creative path. This sets the stage for him to share the "Stone story" with the eager audience.
I think it's up to us as individuals to find what inspires us, find people like yourself that make us think differently, find new tools that unlock our limitations as creatives and communicators. — Michael F. Schein
3. Takes from Salesforce and Basecamp on Market Differentiation
Alex shifts the conversation to practical applications of Michael's playbook, particularly for emerging companies challenging market leaders. The question centers on modern examples, especially in technology, where innovative entities carve out unique positions by strategically differentiating themselves from established players.
Michael responds with the example of Salesforce and Basecamp. He explains how Salesforce created an entirely new market for cloud-based CRM, becoming a dominant force. In contrast, Basecamp, rather than directly competing with Salesforce's comprehensive platform, adopted a "Rolling Stones" approach by positioning itself as the simpler alternative. Jason Fried, Basecamp's founder, actively advocates for simplicity in work, contrasting with the complexity of Salesforce. By focusing on essential features and promoting ease of use, Basecamp appealed to users who found Salesforce overwhelming, effectively turning a potential weakness (fewer features) into a strength and carving out a distinct niche as the "anti-Salesforce."
What the guys at Salesforce did, Jason Fried in particular, is he's constantly blogging, writing books, and making videos on how work is too complex. He says if you have a team that's regularly working weekends, you should punish them because they're not efficient enough and you don't have good systems. So, instead of saying, “We're better than Salesforce,” he said, “We are for simplicity at work. — Michael F. Schein
4. Ideas for marketers who were too centric on products rather than distribution steps
AS shares insights from their time at Salesforce and SuccessFactors, highlighting the strategy of targeting well-known brands and focusing on innovative customer stories to build credibility. They then discuss their current startup's work with industry giants like Salesforce and Accenture, framing these as examples of tactical leverage in the B2B world. AS asks Michael for additional ideas for marketers who tend to be product-centric and may overlook crucial distribution strategies.
Michael suggests the "invite only" approach, drawing a parallel to Facebook's early exclusivity, which created a sense of desirability. He proposes a B2B application where a company with a sophisticated new product could send exclusive, vague invitations to a select group for a special unveiling. This creates an air of mystery and exclusivity, turning the initial users into insiders with privileged access. Michael emphasizes the power of creating a "secret club" mentality, referencing the allure of exclusive spaces like country clubs and even the public interest in seeing a Mormon Temple before its consecration. This strategy leverages scarcity and exclusivity to generate buzz and desire.
One idea is you have this really sophisticated product with new features. What if you send a print invitation, a gold leaf inviting them to the unveiling? And you keep it really vague, not of a product but of a new development in the tech world, and you have a banquet, these people show up, you give them access, and they're the only people in the world who have it and you keep it kind of a secret as people gossip. — Michael F. Schein
5. How to reduce the 'risk of adoption'
Michael agrees, stating that the "second up to bat" often reaps the greatest rewards, as true innovators frequently don't. He emphasizes the need for new ideas to be both novel and familiar to mitigate the "risk of adoption."
Michael explains that when the novelty of an idea is minimal, "hype artists" employ flashy tactics to create a sense of importance. He uses Simon Sinek as an example, suggesting his work repackages existing ideas with scientific-sounding language to appear more significant. Michael points out that humans are inherently resistant to change, as it triggers a cortisol response associated with danger. He illustrates how religions ease people into novel concepts by starting with familiar ideas ("milk before meat") before introducing more radical beliefs, using Scientology as an example of a gradual introduction to seemingly outlandish concepts. He also analyzes Martin Luther King Jr.'s success in framing the radical idea of integration within the familiar language of American ideals, contrasting it with the less effective "defund the police" slogan, which lacked grounding in common understanding and comfort.
Look at Martin Luther King's speeches. What he did so effectively that, honestly, modern progressives don't do very well at all. What was a very radical idea for the United States? It shouldn't be, but it was ‘integration’ in the language of America. We're gonna deliver the promise of the country's institution. — Michael F. Schein
6. The Crucial Role of Language
Alex underscores the critical role of language and framing in the success of significant ideas. Even with substantial momentum, improperly packaged ideas are unlikely to gain traction and lasting impact.
Michael agrees, highlighting that effective framing is essential for buy-in. He uses the example of blockchain, a potentially revolutionary technology that has yet to achieve widespread adoption due to a lack of clear understanding. While cryptocurrency, being tied to the concept of money, is more readily grasped, it still faces challenges. Michael expresses skepticism about the metaverse, suggesting that its current cartoonish representation fails to resonate with people, unlike the original Facebook, which drew its name and concept from a familiar college directory. He implies that the metaverse's abstract nature hinders its widespread comprehension and acceptance.
It's one way to get people to buy in. If you've created a brand-new technology that has the power to change the world, but people don't understand it— I don't know, Blockchain. No one understands it. Everyone is talking about it, but there hasn't been a big innovation yet because it's not wrapped in reality. — Michael F. Schein
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