S 01 | Ep 50 Navigating the Evolving Landscape of AI

In Marketing and Startups

David Karel is the CMO at CrunchTime and Zenput. Previously, he was the CMO of Bizo, which was bought by LinkedIn, where David spearheaded and led B2B marketing solutions, and Clari, a unicorn in the sales productivity space.

Key Takeaways

(09:20-15:11) Crafting Authentic B2B Marketing

(15:11-23:16) From E-books to Executive Roles

(23:16-29:02) Rethinking B2B Marketing: From Tactics to Trust

(29:02-35:02) B2B Marketing Success

(35:02-44:35) Effective B2B Marketing and Sales Collaboration

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Building B2B
Marketing Prowess

David recounts his transition from a product marketer to a CMO, starting with his role at Bizo, a small venture-backed company. He shares the challenges of building a marketing engine from scratch with only a small team and how self-awareness and overcoming imposter syndrome played a critical role in his success. David reveals his strategic decision to invest heavily in internal content creation and branding early on. Hiring a talented writer as his first major recruit helped Bizo quickly differentiate itself in the market, demonstrating the power of strong, in-house content capabilities.

1. Crafting Authentic B2B Marketing

David shares his strategy of hiring a great graphic designer early on to handle web and marketing design internally. This decision was driven by the need to maintain high standards and break through the noise in a competitive market. Alex points out that selling to marketers requires particularly high-quality marketing to establish credibility.

David explains the challenges of selling B2B marketing solutions to a broad market, which includes various verticals. The vast market size means there is a lot of noise, making it essential to have standout marketing strategies.

Reflecting on his time at Bizo and LinkedIn, David discusses the explosion of marketing technologies around 2010, including marketing automation tools like Marketo and content management systems. This period saw the rise of content marketing, account-based marketing (ABM), and data-driven strategies, which significantly influenced his approach.

It was 2010. This renaissance was happening with marketing. Automation was just coming online. Marketo was in the late 2000s. The earliest adopters were using them, but it was starting to really hit not mainstream webinar platforms, as well as content management systems. There were more ways to more nimbly manage your websites and optimize your websites really quickly. (David Karel)

2. From E-books to Executive Roles

David and Alex talk about how certain marketing trends, like giving out gift cards, initially work well but quickly become overused and lose effectiveness. David emphasizes the need for marketing efforts to be credible and authentic to build genuine connections with potential customers.

Alex shifts the conversation to Bizo’s acquisition by LinkedIn. David explains that Bizo’s fit within LinkedIn’s marketing solutions business was driven by their complementary products and organizational strengths. This move helped LinkedIn enhance its B2B marketing capabilities, particularly with the introduction of sponsored content.

Fast forwarding to his current role, David discusses his journey with Zenput, a restaurant tech company, which was later acquired by CrunchTime. He describes how he grew Zenput’s marketing team and business, and how he now oversees a more complex, scaled marketing operation at CrunchTime, which recently crossed the $100 million revenue mark.

3. Rethinking B2B Marketing: From Tactics to Trust

Alex starts by challenging David on the idea of changing a prospect’s thinking and inspiring behavioral change. They agree that while getting someone to fill out a form is a low bar, the ultimate goal should be to make a profound impact that influences their priorities and actions.

David and Alex discuss the use of deceptive tactics in marketing, like the “trick” of showing a short form that expands into a longer one after an email is entered. While these tactics might seem clever and reduce initial friction, they often erode trust and leave prospects feeling tricked and frustrated.

David emphasizes the importance of considering the long-term impact of such tactics. He points out that in both consumer and B2B contexts, trust and credibility are crucial. Using pushy, short-term tactics can damage these relationships, especially in enterprise sales, where building trust and educating prospects is a lengthy process.

4. B2B Marketing Success

Alex challenges the relevance of MQLs in measuring success. David agrees, stating that while MQLs help track progress within the marketing team, they are not the metrics that drive executive discussions or board meetings. Instead, the focus should be on later-stage deals and overall business impact.

David highlights the importance of building a culture where marketing and sales teams work closely together, sharing credit and responsibilities. He emphasizes that marketing’s role is to facilitate and support sales, making it easier for them to create opportunities and close deals.

Both speakers agree that in B2B, especially in mid-market to enterprise contexts, sales cycles are lengthy and require multiple touchpoints. It's a team effort where marketing aids in the education and nurturing of prospects, ultimately supporting the sales team in closing deals.

David shares his practice of having marketing teams actively participate in Quarterly Business Reviews (QBRs) with sales. This helps marketing stay attuned to the challenges and needs of the sales team, ensuring that marketing efforts are aligned with real-world sales opportunities and challenges.

They discuss the detrimental effects of internal disputes over credit for deals. David advocates for a mindset where both sales and marketing share ownership of results, fostering a cooperative rather than competitive environment.

They also touch on the importance of customer success, noting that successful onboarding and customer satisfaction lead to growth and upsell opportunities. This underscores the idea that everyone in the organization, from sales to marketing to customer success, plays a role in driving overall business success.

You're either a part of a go-to-market team or you're not. And I think if you're not invested in staying really close to what's going on in the opportunities, it's really hard to do your job as a marketer. (David Karel)

5. Effective B2B Marketing and Sales Collaboration

David emphasizes the importance of sales and marketing teams working as a cohesive unit. He notes that while specialization is valuable, being part of a unified team that shares data and supports each other leads to better outcomes. This collaborative approach helps break through the noise of common tactics that make prospects numb.

Alex and David highlight the challenge of effectively integrating marketing content into the sales process. Often, marketing and sales use different tools and have different mindsets, leading to disjointed efforts. They discuss the importance of creating a shared content experience that is easily accessible and reusable by sales teams throughout the customer journey.

The content works best when you're mapping it to someone. You've learned something. You've really learned one-on-one about somebody. Marketing can't really do that, but reps can. And especially if they get some enablement about how to go about that. (David Karel)

Check the episode's Transcript (AI-generated) HERE.