See the show notes for this episode: S 01 | Ep 62 Understanding the Non-Linear Buyer Journey: A New Approach to Marketing | Show notes.
0:00:00 - Alex Shevelenko
Welcome to a very special episode of Experience-Focused Leaders. I'm delighted to introduce you to Georgiana Laudi, co-founder and CEO of the consulting firm Forget the Funnel, and the author of Forget the Funnel book. She has tons of experience, including serving as the VP of Marketing at Unbounce. Georgiana, or Gia, as we'll refer to you, welcome to the pod!
0:00:27 - Georgiana Laudi
Hey, thanks so much for having me. Happy to be here!
0:00:30 - Alex Shevelenko
Well, you had me on Forget the Funnel because I have some issues with forcing people into being a "lead" and using terminology that moves you away from seeing someone as a human or customer, or even a future customer, and instead treats them as part of a sort of factory. So I'd love to hear—where did the Forget the Funnel vision come from, and what do you dislike about the funnel?
0:01:25 - Georgiana Laudi
Yeah. So, in essence, we find the funnel to be a sort of lazy way of thinking about customers, and it's also problematic—especially now. When we think of our relationships with customers in this flattened, simplistic, and generic way like a funnel, we lose all kinds of opportunities to create better experiences, deliver more value, and increase conversions overall.
Funnels are just kind of lazy, and particularly problematic if you're serving a recurring revenue business. If the business model is B2B SaaS or any kind of recurring revenue model, thinking about your relationship with your customers as being a funnel is highly problematic. Obviously, the bottom of the funnel is when someone becomes a customer, but there's a whole lot that happens after that for recurring revenue businesses.
Another issue is that a lot of context is often missed when we think of our relationship with customers as being part of a funnel. When we consider the world our customers live in—before they even know we exist, while they’re experiencing the problem we help solve—that context is critical. Most funnels, and even customer journey models, don’t take that into account. And that's really critical context to understand if we're going to adequately market to them, reach them, resonate with them, and ultimately turn them into high-LTV, very happy customers for the long term. So again, funnels flatten our view, make assumptions about our relationships with customers and their relationship with our product, and also leave out a lot of really important context—both pre-acquisition and post-acquisition—in terms of continued value, expansion, and all the wonderful opportunities in recurring revenue businesses, which I know you're also a part of.
0:03:23 - Alex Shevelenko
Yeah, and I would just echo that. What bothers me about this is also the oversimplification of the real B2B buyer journey, which doesn’t feel linear at all to me. It feels more like a quantum physics-type experience, where you’re bouncing around, moving forward, and then, obviously, you have people in the buying group with very different levels of knowledge. This sort of funnel implies that there’s one person somehow getting more and more interested, and you know, I wish we all had an individual customer like that—someone who’s going to just go ahead and buy. You know, enterprise deals like that are a dream, right? If we find that, let’s bring it on. But in my view, that’s very far from reality, where you have different people with different needs. Even the same person, if you catch them at a different time in the buyer journey, will obviously need different information.
For example, they could be looking at the information on their phone in the evening, or they could have time but not access to a proper screen. Or they might be really intent on answering a specific question to move the process forward. So you need to give the user the flexibility to self-identify where they are in the journey, and I don’t know if the funnel metaphor supports that.
0:05:02 - Georgiana Laudi
No, not at all. That’s right. It flattens our view, and we end up creating experiences that lack nuance and context. It’s really important to understand the context in which someone is making a decision. One example that comes to mind is a company we worked with a while ago, where their customers were literally in their vehicles, needing to find a solution. They were experiencing a problem that this company helped solve, which was invoicing.
There were a lot of assumptions about how someone would come to need an invoicing tool, but what we learned from those customers was that they were literally sitting in a vehicle, on-site, searching for a solution. This kind of nuanced understanding—not just of where they were physically but also mentally, what they were comparing the solution to, and what they needed to see to make a purchase decision—was crucial. There are so many layers of nuance and context available to us that we don’t need to flatten our view of our customers. We can provide a better customer experience compared to what we were doing before, and compared to the other options in the market.
0:06:39 - Alex Shevelenko
Right, and I think the other point you highlighted is this idea of "flattening." It almost feels like it dehumanizes the full picture of the buyer. People use terms like "persona," which, you know, is better than having nothing—it’s a prototype of a customer. But when you overuse these terms, it doesn’t feel great. Salespeople pick up that terminology—‘suspect,’ ‘prospect’—and again, it might be useful as a philosophy, but I think something gets lost in the language. We forget these are human beings, making decisions that impact their careers. We want to build trust, not just filter them through a system.
I don’t know, what’s your take on how marketing handles that challenge?
0:07:45 - Georgiana Laudi
I think you're highlighting a really important reason for how we got here. Part of it is this need to create a shared language about our customers across cross-functional teams. That’s a very real need. The problem is, over time—and I’m not sure what the genesis of this was, though I imagine at the end of the day, it’s revenue—we’ve come to think of our customers through the lens of their value to us and the business, instead of the value we’re providing to them. I think that’s inherently, philosophically, what's backwards about how we operationalize customer experience.
That’s why we do what we do. It’s why we developed the Customer-Led Growth framework as a way to flip the script and operationalize our relationship with customers through the lens of how we’re delivering value to them and what the most appropriate experience is for them. So we’re not talking about leads, prospects, MQLs, or SQLs. We’re talking about first value, value promise, value realization, continued value—things like that.
We also develop our measures of success, where our teams can understand, based on leading indicators or KPIs, how well we’re helping customers move from one milestone to the next in their relationship with us. It’s not about when they become an MQL or SQL, which is often void of meaning and just as problematic as terms like "prospect" or "lead." That’s the whole reason why Forget the Funnel exists—that’s the genesis of where we came from. I think you just connected the dots between this need for teams to have a shared language and understanding of the customer journey, which is necessary. But we’ve fallen into the trap of thinking only about the customer’s value to the business—those transactional moments of success—versus the experiential moments of success.
0:09:46 - Alex Shevelenko
I think you nailed it. You can see the difference when you meet world-class enterprise sales teams. Yes, they need to close deals, but their focus is often on customer value, customer value realization. In sales organizations that build long-term, sustainable, multi-year relationships instead of just trying to push a SKU to make the quarter, there’s a lot of work. Some of our clients from that world create a value report for the customer at the end of the year, where they bring together all the projects, and it feels beautiful. It’s real marketing at its best—showing and demonstrating the value you’ve contributed and how to extend that forward.
I feel like marketing gets stuck a bit. The marketing folks I’ve spoken to get stuck in these overproduced case studies that no one who’s half awake, with even a touch of cynicism, would believe. They feel like they’re faking it in some areas and not doing enough of the real substantive value demonstration, like, ‘Hey, here’s a real success.’ Am I catching that right? What trends are you seeing, and how are they changing over time?
0:11:26 - Georgiana Laudi
Yeah, I mean, what you just described—the department or function that popped into my head—was product marketing. And when I say product marketing, I mean the true meaning of it.
A lot of marketing teams are focused on their targets, and many are tasked with a lead number. They have performance targets and need to generate a certain number of leads, so they get stuck in this trap, the hamster wheel, of what needs to be done month over month to produce more leads. You know, doubling down on things that have worked in the past or just throwing spaghetti at the wall. That happens a lot, where teams are desperate to show results and feel the need to put something out into the world just to avoid getting in trouble with the Chief Revenue Officer for not having enough leads.
It's all about traffic and leads. As long as those numbers are going up, the team feels they’ve done their job. But that’s void of the deeper story and analysis of what’s really going on. I think product marketing teams are often underutilized or even non-existent. If we think of product marketing as a function, not just as a department or role, it’s really meant to provide that foundational understanding—the “forest for the trees” view. Who is our ideal customer? What do they really care about? That psychographic understanding of customers, which ties back to solid positioning that supports amazing messaging, ultimately leads to better strategies across product experiences, sales experiences, and content.
So, I think the fundamentals are often missing. There are many reasons for that, largely because product marketing is a misunderstood function within many SaaS businesses. This is true in product-led organizations, and probably even more so in sales-led ones. Product marketing is wildly underutilized and misunderstood, though it has immense value to provide, especially in sales-led organizations.
Marketing teams are also running a little scared right now, especially in tech, where there have been tons of layoffs. It's been a really volatile few years for marketing. I was just looking at the data recently, and about 260,000 tech jobs were lost last year. 2024 is shaping up to be similar, and we're on track for a comparable number. Marketing teams are feeling the pressure, and that exasperates the problem. But even before these layoffs, there has always been a gross misunderstanding of product marketing, and of marketing overall, especially in tech.
Tech companies are typically not started by people with marketing backgrounds, so there’s often a misunderstanding of marketing's value and an overestimation of what marketing is capable of. This leads to unfair targets being placed on marketing teams. Marketers in tech are often among the lowest-paid employees, especially in tech companies. As a result, mid-career or less experienced marketers are often tasked with C-suite-level targets, creating a disconnect between marketers and the tech leadership teams they work for.
Going even further back, that’s actually where Forget the Funnel came from—the misalignment between marketing and tech, and the misunderstanding between leadership teams and marketing. Everybody thinks they’re a marketing expert because everyone is marketed to, so there are lots of opinions flying around.
0:15:55 - Alex Shevelenko
That’s a big thing we notice, right? Every sales rep is a marketer waiting to be uncovered.
0:16:01 - Georgiana Laudi
And then these poor marketers are often underpaid and have very little, sometimes too little, social capital internally to get people on board and in alignment—let alone getting product teams, sales teams, or the leadership team on the same page. This is happening in a lot of marketing teams. I think that’s a big reason why marketing teams fall into the trap of marketing for marketing’s sake—throwing spaghetti at the wall, guesswork layered on top of guesswork, experimentation for the sake of experimentation. They’re missing the forest for the trees and wasting a lot of time. Ultimately, at the end of the day, if we can go to the source—our amazing customers—and have a few really meaningful, targeted conversations with them, we can gain a much richer, nuanced understanding of how to serve them, how to talk to them, and what they need in their customer experience. What solution are they firing in order to hire ours?
A lot of marketers get that wrong.
0:17:09 - Alex Shevelenko
Let’s dive deeper into the types of marketers, because you started touching on content, demand gen, and product, and I think this is helpful. I just want to say some of my best friends are marketers—I used to be a marketer myself.
0:17:27 - Georgiana Laudi
I used to be a marketer, and I’ve made all the mistakes I’m sure we’re talking about right now.
0:17:29 - Alex Shevelenko
So, with all the humility required, I love that some of our customers and partners can relate to our marketers. Ultimately, I think the world is moving towards a place where every great businessperson needs to be a much savvier marketer. I believe the sales rep of the future needs to have more of a marketing mindset than they used to, and even HR professionals need to be savvy communicators, much like the best marketers. If you think this is a marketing topic, I believe it’s actually a product marketing topic. It’s universal—everybody has a "product" that needs to be marketed, quote-unquote. But marketers can run into traps. For example, with demand gen, top-of-the-funnel efforts often lead to traps like fake numbers, pseudo marketing-qualified leads, pseudo sales-qualified leads, and treating all customers as equal, which is a typical high-volume approach.
0:18:40 - Georgiana Laudi
That approach leads to everyone feeling spammed, and it’s very costly—more costly than ever before.
0:18:49 - Alex Shevelenko
It’s getting harder and harder, right? And then with Gen AI, it’s going to be even harder because the cost of content will decrease. But we’re already bombarded with these messages where people copy your title and think they’ve nailed personalization. And it’s like, come on, really?
So, if the goal of the marketer at the top of the funnel is to make a great first impression, they’re either putting out content that doesn’t look attractive and doesn’t engage—or they’re just spamming. Or worse, they’re doing both. They’re not putting an attractive first foot forward, and they’re doing it at a very high volume, which feels like an obvious mistake.
0:19:46 - Georgiana Laudi
Yeah, there are like six issues in what you just said—there’s a lot going on.
0:19:51 - Alex Shevelenko
I tried to sum it up. I feel like people in content marketing—part of which involves thought leadership—are being asked to serve the demand gen side of the organization too often. They’re being asked to churn out some of the nastiest, ugliest content, like SEO-spammy garbage that, if a good customer saw it, you’d be embarrassed half the time. It’s this volume approach to playing the SEO game or producing repetitive, “me-too” content that isn’t even digestible. It feels like they’re serving the wrong goals, and they’re stuck because they don’t have enough authority in most organizations. You don’t often see a Senior VP of Content Marketing—it’s always a Director, or maybe a VP at best. What do you think about that dynamic?
0:21:03 - Georgiana Laudi
There’s so much in what you just said. At the foundational level, nobody is in charge of that holistic, 30,000-foot view of the customer experience. I go back to product marketing because, when product marketing is leveraged well, that function should provide support to awareness marketers, demand gen marketers, and content marketers. I actually have trouble conflating content with marketing because content spans the entire customer experience. So I don’t even like saying “content marketing” because content is much broader than that.
If we think about the end-to-end customer experience, there’s someone out in the world experiencing the problem you solve. That person then discovers you exist and takes a leap of faith to learn more—maybe by booking a demo or signing up for a free trial. They enter the evaluation phase, where they assess whether your solution will actually solve their problem, figure out any deal breakers or anxieties, and determine which other buyers need to be involved, especially in a B2B scenario. Finally, they reach a point where they say, “Hallelujah, this is going to solve my problem,” which we call value realization. They hit a critical threshold of value with your product, and from there, they move into the growth phase.
In the growth phase, you have continued value, especially in a recurring revenue business. But you also see customers evolve and grow in their usage of your product, and you might start thinking about referral mechanisms.
0:22:49 - Alex Shevelenko
Are you saying that a product marketer can do all that? Well, wait, I’d like to meet that person, whoever she is. Is it you?
0:22:59 - Georgiana Laudi
Yes, this is what we do.
0:23:01 - Alex Shevelenko
I can tell you this is what product marketing does.
0:23:04 - Georgiana Laudi
This is what product marketing can do, so I wouldn’t even say that.
0:23:10 - Alex Shevelenko
You’re right, there are examples. But, my oh my. I mean, I put myself in the shoes of a former consultant straight out of Stanford Business School, doing marketing and product marketing. Even with all the good stuff I’m supposed to know, I still gravitated toward the feature-functionality stuff, right? The demo stuff. You try to pull up there, but you gravitate towards that. You know you’re happy to support an enterprise. In the enterprise, in particular, you’re happy when our sales rep asks you for help.
But I think what I struggle with as a marketer is that unless they’re industry marketers or solution marketers, product marketers tend to take the word “product” very seriously. They get stuck in the product component, and most sales organizations push you a little bit toward that as well. You’ve got sales engineers to support, etc. What am I missing? Is there a new breed of product marketers that surpasses that? Where do they live? Show us the companies.
0:24:22 - Georgiana Laudi
Do they?
0:24:23 - Alex Shevelenko
Yes, absolutely.
0:24:25 - Georgiana Laudi
By the way, I just muted myself because there’s some noise outside, so apologies for the background noise. They’ve decided to do their landscaping next door. Um, so yes, absolutely. Product marketing, as I said, is largely underutilized and misunderstood inside organizations. I’m not saying that a product marketer is responsible for executing and implementing the strategy for the end-to-end customer experience. What I’m saying is that product marketing is responsible for learning what the customer needs, getting intimately familiar with the ideal customer and their needs, the milestones, the major decision-making points, and the critical leaps of faith that your customer takes in their relationship with you.
Taking all of that information and disseminating it to the rest of the team—whether that’s the marketing department, the demand generation functionality, the content team, the product team, or the sales team—is key. Product marketing, whether you call it that or not, or whether that’s the title of the individual responsible for the end-to-end customer experience, involves getting intimately familiar with your amazing customers and then educating and facilitating the rest of the company to create outstanding customer experiences that layer into that. That’s exactly what we do. That’s what the customer-led growth framework is meant to do.
We leverage jobs-to-be-done research in order to gain a psychographic and demographic understanding of our customers’ relationship with us. Then we operationalize that in a customer experience map, where we identify the critical moments of value that our customers need to experience in our relationship with us. For each of those milestones, we can unpack what someone is thinking, feeling, and doing so that we truly understand what they need at that moment.
With that understanding across all of those milestones, we can sort of reverse engineer their experience: what does good look like for them? How did they experience the product, and what was going on in their minds? This allows us to assess the customer experience we’re delivering and see all the ways that what we’re doing today might be out of alignment with that.
0:26:36 - Alex Shevelenko
That feels more like a product manager to me, unfortunately. I think the title isn't important, but the way you're describing it feels like it leans a lot more toward customer experience leadership. Oftentimes, it's almost the CEO or someone very senior who could steer the process and have that intimate knowledge to connect the dots. You definitely need senior sponsorship to get something like this done.
0:27:17 - Georgiana Laudi
For sure, you’ve got to have buy-in at the executive level to do this type of work because it impacts so many departments.
If you're at a larger company, you have to have that buy-in. At smaller companies, though, this is absolutely something that could be done. Yes, it could be done by a product manager or product owner, or it could be someone whose title is not important. What matters is the function of product marketing, which I’m really leaning into here. It’s about the product experience, but even more than that, it’s about the customer experience layer you’re putting on top of it.
This includes your positioning, messaging, emails, product experience, sales experience, sales materials, collateral, how you introduce the product, and the order in which you do those things. Customer marketing also plays a role in the post-acquisition and growth phase. All of that intel about your customers needs to be considered holistically and communicated back to the team responsible for creating those experiences.
What we have found is that operationalizing that view really enables teams to make much better decisions—they don’t have to guess anymore. These marketing teams now have deep intel about what is happening with their customers in the market. They know how to engage with them, what their watering holes are, and what their anxieties are. The sales team understands where they are in the buying journey and what they need along the way, as well as who is involved in that process, all because we have that deep intel. I could go on and on about the rest of the customer experience, but again, it’s a tool for teams to make better decisions and eliminate the need for guesswork. It’s just not necessary.
0:29:03 - Alex Shevelenko
I think it's super interesting. Some of the interesting tensions you’re bringing up come from the world of enterprise trying to be more customer-centric, while you’re commenting probably a lot more from a product-led growth perspective, where the role of the product marketer is actually stronger. God pity those product marketers in the enterprise; they're often the first to feel pressure in this recessionary environment. They don’t have budgets, and I had to beg—using all my credentials—to get on a customer call. I still remember that, because it blows my mind. It’s kind of crazy, right?
There’s still a different kind of enterprise mindset of “don’t mess with me,” even at the CEO level. You could call it a customer experience mindset.
0:30:01 - Georgiana Laudi
I think you’re right. But again, the title isn’t important. It’s about whether someone is thinking about the customer experience holistically and is responsible for understanding what customers—and ideal customers—need. That’s really important. Not all customers are created equally. We need to think about segmentation and how to get that intel back to the rest of the teams. Somebody has to be responsible for doing that. Whether you call that person the head of customer experience or the head of product marketing really doesn’t matter, but in my experience, product marketing tends to think that way.
In sales-led organizations, product marketers are often tasked with producing sales collateral, which is a significant undervaluation of the role. Product marketers are in a great position to conduct customer research and understand your unique differentiators and market positioning. They pay attention to what’s happening in the world, understand your customers intimately, and can connect the dots for the team to create those experiences. So I think you’re right. At the end of the day, titles don’t matter to me.
0:31:09 - Alex Shevelenko
Well, we’ve identified a lot of issues in the current marketing process, regardless of the title. You’ve brought up something that’s near and dear to many of our listeners: content. Content creates the first impression, coming from the content and demand generation team that’s trying to raise awareness. Are they building trust, or are they coming off as spammy? You also mentioned product marketers creating demo experiences and sales collateral, which contribute to those initial sales impressions.
There are a lot of statistics from our friends at Gartner indicating that about 80% of the customer journey is completed before a potential customer even talks to a sales organization. What have you found with your clients? Maybe we can differentiate between product-led growth and product-led sales organizations. Where do people typically fall short when it comes to content?
0:32:15 - Georgiana Laudi
Oh, that's a great question. I would say I have to split up product-led companies, sales-led companies, and product-led sales because those are three very different scenarios. The way you leverage content or make decisions about what content to layer in would be very different for each.
0:32:41 - Alex Shevelenko
Let's focus on product-led sales and sales, okay?
0:32:44 - Georgiana Laudi
In a product-led sales situation, I would say less content is needed. Content is needed for awareness-level marketing, but once you get to the evaluation phase, I don’t think as much content is required because the product itself needs to speak for itself.
If you consider email onboarding content, which I do, there is content needed there, right? In a product-led scenario, where you're relying on the product to help someone self-qualify for booking a demo or using the product in a meaningful way, you might leverage a sandbox account or some sort of product environment that allows customers to "kick the tires." From there, they self-qualify and opt in for sales. They essentially become a hand-raiser for sales. In that scenario, 70% of people who log into a product for the first time never come back. They might get distracted by something—whether it's coffee, hunger, or going to sleep—there are countless things that can stand in their way. If you’re not using email to remind them to get back into the product and why they came to you in the first place, you’re losing them.
0:33:58 - Alex Shevelenko
Right, and support them with content. "Hey, good job, you got started, here’s what’s next," or something like that, right?
0:34:05 - Georgiana Laudi
Exactly. It depends on your product and your customer, obviously. But I see far too many companies, especially in a product-led sales motion or even in a pure sales motion where they use the product in some way, giving prospects an opportunity to "kick the tires" in the product without using email to re-engage them. If they log out, they may never come back. You can't always rely on in-app messaging to handle that funnel.
0:34:31 - Alex Shevelenko
So to summarize, you need content at the top of the funnel to get them in, continue engagement during the trial, and then what happens after? What about post-onboarding?
0:34:44 - Georgiana Laudi
Exactly. The onboarding continues all the way through to reaching value realization. Obviously, there are more assistive motions for some products than others. It depends on what your customers need and what the most appropriate experience is for them. That's really the answer to your question: how to leverage content, how much content is needed, and what’s appropriate for different buyers. Another really interesting area where content should be brought in again is post-acquisition, during the continued value expansion and monetization phases. There's a ton of content marketing to be done post-acquisition.
0:35:19 - Alex Shevelenko
Very little done. Yeah, I agree, that is probably the biggest issue. What about sales-led? What are the two big problems there?
0:35:26 - Georgiana Laudi
I would say that applies to a sales-led environment as well, with the key difference being the evaluation phase. There is an assist, but there is often an opportunity to leverage what I’ll call programmatic communications. However, I want to add an asterisk here: I recognize that programmatic communications, especially in the world we're living in right now with AI, present a big challenge. I’m not just talking about simple things like swapping in a name or title—that’s not real personalization—but leveraging programmatic communication in a meaningfully segmented way is something many sales-led organizations overlook. They often think it's purely one-to-one, but there is usually a product experience that can be layered in to support sales. I believe a lot of product marketing and marketing teams could better support sales by providing them with more effective materials. But what those materials are depends entirely on the customers.
0:36:30 - Alex Shevelenko
It depends on the industry and the level of sophistication. For example, in cybersecurity, people often prefer to consume content on their own, rather than talking to sales, whereas in other industries, buyers want more personal interaction. On the whole, though, I think the trend is moving toward: "Don’t give me a sales meeting, but give me the quality of a sales meeting on my time, in my place, and something I can share with my team." Without overwhelming them, but if I'm interested, I want to be able to dig deeper. Would you agree with that?
0:37:12 - Georgiana Laudi
Yeah, I think you're spot on. There's a huge opportunity here, even for complex products and industries, especially in sectors where there's an aversion to sales. And I don't mean entire industries, but certain types of buyers, depending on the job to be done and the buyer profile.
You highlighted a really obvious example: developers or any technical buyer. They don’t want to talk to sales. They just want the information they need and for you to get out of their way. We work with a lot of dev tools companies that want to leverage programmatic communication to enable technical buyers to see value and reach their first value before they ever have to talk to sales. I'm not saying every enterprise or sales-led product needs to adopt a fully product-led growth model, but there’s always an opportunity to leverage the product more. The biggest challenge is figuring out how to do that without upsetting the sales team, which happens a lot.
That's a huge deterrent for many companies. Often, the head of sales has personal ties with leadership—maybe they were the best man at someone's wedding—so it’s a tough pill to swallow. There’s a lot to unpack there, probably enough for an entire episode.
0:38:37 - Alex Shevelenko
That's for the next episode. Gia, this has been tremendous. People might forget the funnel after this, but they’ll never forget this conversation. If they've made it this far, where can they find you, engage with you, and dive deeper into the brilliant content you’ve shared with us today?
0:38:55 - Georgiana Laudi
Yeah, I mean, look, the easiest thing to do if you're interested in the process and want to learn more is to check out our book. We wrote a short, succinct, and very practical book. We were deliberate about keeping it short and practical. It's called Forget the Funnel. It takes you through the framework from beginning to end, so you can easily figure out if it’s something that could work for your team. There’s also a workbook for anyone who wants to try it on their own—you absolutely can. But if you’re in a situation where you're like, "Nope, we want someone to help us do it faster," then you can always get in touch with us at forgetthefunnel.com, and we can chat to see if there's a fit.
0:39:44 - Alex Shevelenko
Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights.
0:39:45 - Georgiana Laudi
Wrestling with the problems we have in marketing is a big topic.
0:39:47 - Alex Shevelenko
Yeah, and customer centricity across the board is near and dear to our hearts. I hope folks got a bunch of takeaways, just like I did from this conversation. Thanks so much, Gia.
0:39:58 - Georgiana Laudi
Thanks for having me!