Ben Guttmann is a marketing communications expert and the author of “Simply Put: Why Clear Messages Win and How to Design Them” book. He ran as a co-founder and managing partner of Digital Natives Group for 10 years, which is an award-winning agency, and worked with the likes of the NFL. He's teaching marketing for undergrads at Baruch College in New York City.
Key Takeaways
(01:20-04:17) How to help anyone deliver great messages
(04:17-04:55) What is the simple message
(04:55-07:28) About RELAYTO
(07:28-12:12) The framework for the messages that move us forward
(12:12-15:04) How to name your company
(15:04-17:55) Five principles of an effective message
(17:55-24:54) What prevents people from wearing their customers' shoes
(24:54-28:36) Why some creative messages don't work
(28:36-33:22) The importance of the sense of ownership
(33:22-35:32) How to properly adjust your message
(35:32-38:00) Art vs business
(38:00-43:30) What are Ben's favorite brands
(43:30-47:37) Takes on X and Twitter rebranding
(47:37-51:57) Thoughts on Metaverse
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Beyond the Buzzwords
Ben witnessed firsthand the universal struggle, even among the most passionate and innovative individuals, to articulate their value and get their message across effectively. This led him on a quest to understand why some communications soar while others fall flat, a journey he brilliantly unpacks in his book about the power of simplicity. Get ready for an insightful conversation as Ben shares his practical wisdom on how to cut through the noise, frame your message for impact, and ultimately ensure it's not just heard, but understood and acted upon.
1. How to help anyone deliver great messages
Ben shares his experience running a marketing agency for a decade, working with businesses of all sizes. He notes a common challenge: even companies with excellent products and initiatives often struggle to communicate their value effectively to the world, which is why they seek marketing expertise.
He affirms the interviewer's observation that the more important, sophisticated, and potentially impactful a message is, the harder it often is for its creators to convey it clearly. Ben recounts working with long-established entrepreneurs and industry veterans who struggled to articulate what they did and why it mattered. This curiosity about why some messages resonate and drive action while others fail, despite significant investment or passionate delivery, led him to investigate the underlying principles of effective communication. He emphasizes that everyone, regardless of their profession, is in the business of informing and persuading. Ironically, this exploration of simplicity in communication culminated in his writing a 208-page book on the subject.
2. About RELAYTO
Ben enthusiastically agrees with the interviewer's perspective on the challenges of document discoverability, understanding, and call to action. The interviewer, the founder and CEO of RELAYTO, explains their mission to transform static documents, presentations, and videos into dynamic, web-based experiences. This is driven by the understanding that traditional formats like lengthy, gated, and non-navigable PDFs often fail to effectively convey information or prompt action. The interviewer highlights common issues such as poor mobile viewing, inaccessible table of contents, and the near absence of clear calls to action, even in sophisticated content. The example of a simple "thank you" at the end of a presentation without any contact information underscores this problem.
Ben builds on this by stating that most marketing and advertising encounters are against the consumer's will. People don't typically seek out advertisements. Instead, their interests lie in personal connections, family, community, beliefs, and hobbies. Therefore, the challenge for businesses is to effectively connect their products or messages (like a new shampoo, a report, or a safety warning) to these existing priorities and demonstrate their relevance to consumers' lives.
We care about our families, loved ones, neighborhoods, religion, and sports teams, all these things are important to us. But we don't care about your new shampoo, right? You have to connect that with us in some other way in terms of how this fits into our lives.We care about our families, loved ones, neighborhoods, religion, and sports teams, all these things are important to us. But we don't care about your new shampoo, right? You have to connect that with us in some other way in terms of how this fits into our lives. — Ben Guttmann
3. What prevents people from wearing their customers' shoes
Ben playfully identifies himself as the "enlightened idiot" regarding RELAYTO, acknowledging the interviewer's expertise while positioning himself closer to the general audience's initial understanding. When asked for techniques to adopt this beginner's mind, he suggests that while formal marketing research can be valuable, it's not always necessary. He uses the example of the Gallup poll's relatively small sample size to illustrate that even insights from a few individuals can be beneficial. He recommends a simple technique: explaining your message to a stick figure on a Post-it note to force clarity and avoid jargon. He points out that people rarely experience "talker's block," suggesting that speaking an idea aloud and identifying the most authentic fragments can lead to more natural and effective written communication.
And so it's really obvious when people are saying something that sounds like they wrote it. That's why we give Oscars away to people who are good at saying things that were written. Most people are pretty bad about saying something authentically that was written for them. If it sounds weird when you're talking to somebody, it's much better if you talk out your idea, grab that little fragment of a sentence that was really great. — Ben Guttmann
4. Why some creative messages don't work
Ben emphasizes the fundamental importance of communication, stating it's the core reason he wrote his book. He points out that effective communication goes beyond mere marketing slogans and is essential for connecting with others, driving change, and improving the world. He highlights the significant real-world impact of miscommunication, citing it as the leading cause of divorce and a substantial annual economic loss.
Ben simplifies the communication process into three key elements: senders, receivers, and the message in between, noting that individuals often occupy both sender and receiver roles. He clarifies that the message itself is not just the words used but the underlying idea, which can also be conveyed through images, sounds, or feelings. His book focuses on how to frame that message effectively to ensure it is easily perceived, understood, and acted upon by the receiver. Ben underscores that the primary responsibility for successful communication lies with the sender, akin to the sender being responsible for postage when mailing a letter.
The message is the way I frame it. It's not words. It's often represented by words, but it is the idea that's behind the words. It could also be images, sounds, or feelings. Anything that hits the frame. — Ben Guttmann
5. How to properly adjust your message
Ben highlights a significant shift in the digital landscape with major platforms like Apple, Google, Mozilla, and Microsoft collectively moving towards the "death of the cookie." Cookies are small files that track user activity, enabling retargeted advertising, a common online marketing tactic. He notes that Facebook's stock experienced a significant drop due to concerns about the impact of these changes on their advertising-based business model, as they lack direct control over the underlying platforms, browsers, and operating systems.
Ben suggests that the era of blunt-force advertising, where repeated exposure (like seeing the same hiking boot ad endlessly) could drive purchases, is coming to an end. The tools and "cheat codes" of past digital marketing strategies reliant on cookies will be less effective in the future. He emphasizes the need to revert to fundamental principles of human interaction and effective communication to craft persuasive messages that resonate with audiences in this new, cookie-less environment.
If I hit you over the head with an advertisement 1000 times, then you're probably gonna go out and buy pair of hiking boots. But that tool doesn't work anymore. It's in the process of dying, and kind of a cheat code for everybody's business and marketing for the past , won't work in the next generation. — Ben Guttmann
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