0:00:06 - Alex
All right. Well, welcome to a very special episode of Experience Focus Leaders podcast. We have our friend, an early adapter of, relate to and, more importantly, ensure, tech queen, the alchemy crew podcast diva guru I don't know how to call you exactly Sabine London. Sabine has over 25 years of experience in insurance. She started startup bootcamp in sure tech in London, in Hartford, and really has pioneered innovation in an industry and has become a top 50 women in tech, fintech and sure tech, you name it. So, without further ado, sabine, welcome to the pod.
0:00:56 - Sabine
Thank you very much for having me, Alex. Thank you for looking forward to supporting the pod and seeing what is ahead of me actually. Well, listen.
0:01:06 - Alex
Sabine, you have a really interesting starting point with insured tech, before it became popular and the buzzword in the industry and has really, you know from the very early days, pioneered a connection between very large institutions, hundreds years in the making, who are now doing very, very interesting things. So tell us about that journey. Why insure tech and where have you seen the corporate innovation? Take this industry and other industries that you've touched?
0:01:47 - Sabine
Yeah. So, alex, I have to say you know I'm French and moved to the UK 30 years ago and, like many of us, we fall into insurance. So I did, you know, the interview with a big financial institution banking but I actually like the relationship based approach that existed in insurance. So I made my way into loads of London and learned the basics of regulations and what we call specialty insurance. You know satellites. You know very expensive people such as celebrities and big buildings around the globe. Think about things we don't want to think about. But where would a pandemic be insured? Loads of London. Where would buildings which crash? You know a crash by planes be insured? Will be loads of London.
And so, after pretty much 18 years working in insurance and doing consulting work and technology and strategy consulting work for you know the top 100 companies around the globe. You know working for big brands. And seven years ago, eight years ago, I decided to actually work for a smaller organization. First, investors approached me and said you know, it's time for you to give back my dear Sabine. So I went into fintech one year after I went into insure tech, because I realized what was called fintech would happen in insurance.
So 2015 was the year, if you remember, alex, when Anderson, owitz and Sequoia said you know, insurance is ripe for innovation and I actually listen access venture set up, their fund, komet, which is a CV is their venture build was set up as well. And so that's when insurance technology, insure tech started. Some people said no, it started much earlier. For sure, you had the guide wire of this world and a lot of players already doing technology innovation, but there was a shift in 2015, 2016,. As you remember, where we had startups you know, young players like you so in Silicon Valley, coming in, anything helped to work with the big players, the big companies. So I guess one of my advantages and my capability after 18 years working with those companies was to become that the bridge, you know helping the ventures to understand what a business model looks like, an operating model looks like, how you communicate effectively with those big players.
As you know, very process heavy, very, very much regulatory and compliance heavy, but at the same time you to have fun, you know, to actually see where the world of technology was going. So I mean, when you think about insurance technology, when you say tech, you need to think about FinTech, Halsec, all the other drivers, and you know the other, the buckets. Insurance technology is one place, but what is fascinating about insurance technology is it touches everything.
Think about risk, mitigation, risk risk transfer yeah insurance is everywhere, and so that's what makes it exciting. You know people don't find insurance sexy, but I think it's probably one of the sector which is becoming sexier. Because they have to digitize and they have to serve their customer better. They have to become relevant every single day. Whether you look at people like you and I, you know having to ensure an iPhone or an app, big companies which need to ensure their people. Now insurance is all about sustainability or weather risk, so think about the underlying technology. We need to do that right. We need geospatial data. We need dynamic AI models all those stuff other things that look at every day.
0:05:49 - Alex
So it's really interesting, sabine, the generally the. There's sort of this disconnect where insurance at some point was, you know, the defining, risk-taking, innovative industry right, and I remember reading a book called Against the Gods the Remarkable Story of Risk by Peter Bernstein and which really explained the roots and the innovation of, like, a lot of modern economy, the maritime trade. Everything that we take for granted really came out of these organizations. And when you're working with them now, how are you helping them find those roots right, like, because they're still, you know, pockets, whether it's tech or not tech. There's pockets of insurance, especially in that specialty areas, that are really innovative and there's new products being introduced all the time.
So how are you finding pockets of innovation that can help spread across larger institutions that maybe have grown more conservative over time? You know, and have you found a profile of a corporate innovator A lot of people that are wanting to work with insurers, like myself, you know, and you know we can get stuck with people that really can get stuff done with an insurance and departments that have more ability to do it, and then some teams want to do it but they're just not equipped for it or their personality is to play it safer and it's sort of taking a little bit from an outsider, you know, to find those hot spots. What's your take, and has it changed over time?
0:07:32 - Sabine
So you know, when you think about insurance, think about the fact that there is probably 5000 insurance companies around the globe, and when you talk about innovation, I think you know you need to talk to the top 100. I actually have to be honest with you Now. When you look at every country, you will have the top 20 insurers in every markets which actually cover pretty much 100%, nearly 100% of the premium which is underrated, and I think it's very important to understand the dynamics right. So every country France, the UK, spain as its top 20 insurers in every lines of business, home, travel, mother, son and so forth and technically, if you look at the top 20, you will represent 100% of what is underwritten. Oh, you know. 98%.
So, once you actually have this understanding, your focus tends to be really limited, if I may say so, then to win in insurance.
0:08:36 - Alex
But so hold on. So we're eliminating brokers for now, so we're just focusing on the underwriters. Okay, so just to be clear. Okay, got it but then you know.
0:08:45 - Sabine
If you want even to look at the brokers I mean, the broker markets is full of consolidations. Now I think I used to work, when I was with Lloyds of London, with one of the top four brokers 25 years ago. Now is top 25 because they are very niche and very specialized and what you find is the top brokers. The way they grow is for acquisition, so they go and acquire and acquire, and acquire, and acquire and acquire and acquire, and that is what make them super big. Now, when you look at the three insurers, let's just be clear you don't have, I mean, look at the top 20 insurers. Those are the insurers, so their insurers are insurers.
And so it's not as if you have, you know, thousands of insurers. What you do find today is some of the insurers I don't want to give names, but, for example, some version in Bermuda and in a came in islands actually focus on innovations. They do have insurance, but they use a lot of technology and a lot of startups to actually help them build the new business models of tomorrow.
0:09:50 - Alex
That's very interesting. So we've noticed ourselves that we, to our surprise, we have, you know, tend to work with innovators, and we've had, you know, reinsurers who want to communicate in a different way. We have, you know, carriers, insurers, and then we have brokers. But the one common theme that we've heard and I'm curious of what your, what your take, is that there's this pressure in the industry with that is very complex and hard to understand for for audience. You know that you still has information heaviness, right, like to to it. Right, whether it's regulatory or just in general, they, they are trying to consolidate.
Hey, we need to be thorough, we need to provide all the evidence. We are regularly have to do this, but at the same time, we need to show our customers, or our future customers, that they are more than a piece of paper, right, and that's sort of where we find, you know, why we love the industry, right, because we tend to take that piece of paper or, you know, add a lot of piece of paper like a PDF and make it interesting, engaging, understandable, while still providing the evidence. But what's your take on what is forcing that need to innovate? Right, and there's probably like the underlying underwriting model, innovation, right, which is one pocket, but then there is probably another one, which is customer experience innovation, and you know how important is that. What's where is insurance and kind of? In comparison to other areas of FinTech innovation or other other industries that you've seen and you know is that again fits into your the top ones are the ones that are innovating or are you seeing the starting to spread across across the market?
0:11:39 - Sabine
I think we are going through a major reshaping of industries, alex. I mean, when you think about what is a gelative AI bringing into market, we have to realize it's going to change all industries. When you look at the surveys, you know whether insurance or FinTech, let's say whether insurance or banking you know they tend to still be quite low in those ratings and the main compared to fashion or luxury goods or retail, and the main reason is because people can't touch an insurance products.
You know they pay a premium and then someday maybe they will get a claim paid and so the insurers and the reinsurers and the workers are trying to change that dynamic and become more relevant in the eye on the customer. I think today, because of what I said, you know, insurance is 6 to 70% about paper and data, paper written content and what do we do every day?
We read, we write, we learn, and our power is about transforming the information to make it simpler for people to understand. So I can see why insurance companies, reinsurers or workers will be interested in understanding how a related to is able to drive value for them is because we are in this information economy and data is the all of everything, and being able to make decisions but also express that information in a simpler way is crucial, right?
0:13:17 - Alex
It's sort of a measure of information with consumption right. So if you have the information economy but the information is not consumable, then you know, you're not, you're not really leveraging it right, and then the consumability becomes even more important. The more information there is right, because then you need to find the perfect nugget inside. You know, thousands of pages across hundreds of documents.
0:13:43 - Sabine
People don't read their contracts.
You know, you know you buy insurance. People don't read their contracts and if they do read it, they often do not understand them and you wonder why do those contracts need to be that long? A lot of startups and young ventures are trying to make the contract simpler. Now, with DirectVIA, you even have capabilities to actually look at the contracts and help people question the contracts and explain it with you know, virtual assistants. So all these coming together is about simplification make it easy for people to understand, to make good choices for themselves.
0:14:18 - Alex
Well, so one thing that is collaring to what you know this information is also a really fundamental to insurance business is, I understand, is trust, right? You mentioned the value of relationships in the kind of B2B part of the business, but in general, trust and transparency, right. So that combo and you know that sort of fits into you know piece of paper. It's not a relationship, right? It's sort of your kind of a formality paperwork. Hide behind other expressions, like, hide behind small print, right, like so that sort of skepticism inherent with the small print. So how do you be insurers and innovators in the industry, you know, overcome trust and this sort of transparency, right? So we talked about making some things more consumable, but there's got to be more, right. Like, what other innovations are you seeing?
0:15:17 - Sabine
So one big part will be branding, you know, okay, so I think we're going to be doing some pretty cool brand tech, but think about branding and the power of brand and authenticity and what we, what I've seen the past 12 months, is recognition that you know, customers are not stupid and brands have a lot of power if they actually build in the right way. Okay, but as you know, you know, whilst I build R&D labs and commercial labs with insurance companies, at the same time what realizes communication and authentic communication is a big part of it. It's why I often am approached as well by those big brands to help them touch specific segments with simpler, authentic messaging. So we say branding. So that brings us to the end of this one section.
Storytelling will actually become highly differentiating. You can have the technology, you can have the GeoRATVN, all those things, but the way you differentiate will be around your power to storytell, to target and communicate with the customer in very unique ways. And also it will be about the creativity. I mean, regardless as to all the stuff GeoRATVN guys can do, even the imagery, and at the end of the day, you still need that level of creativity which makes it less mass market right, much more different for segments you're targeting, so that branding is going to be a big part of it. And you mentioned trust and transparency education. I think education will be crucial.
0:16:55 - Alex
And I guess what I'm hearing is that there's already have been some challenges about perceived commoditization, right, where it's hard to distinguish between policy A versus policy B, especially if they're really abstract right, and sometime in the future, and so the now that that is sort of even so, it's part of brand, is part of that differentiation, but it's also part of expanding from one line of business that you're supporting somebody into the other, and so it's sort of cross-selling up stuff. Okay, got it.
0:17:31 - Sabine
But remember insurance. I don't know how you say that even your credit cards but price is important. I mean, the customer of insurance is very price sensitive. So the individual customer of insurance is very price sensitive. Imagine this year some people have received a raise and increase in their mother home travel insurance premium. You go straight to your insurance and it's like what is going on? Why am I having an increase when I didn't even have a claim? And they say it's because the rates have increased.
Now when you look at corporate customers, the way they start negotiating on those is either they get higher whether they access, they take more on themselves, or they actually go for much more dynamic type of policies where there's much more monitoring happening. Now, with data you can do that. So imagine between you and I when we are driving, for example, and you can actually monitor the driving patterns, you can go and have a premium which goes up and down. So we go into that more dynamic world. But because customers are very price sensitive, they are going to watch out very closely as to whether that is suited for them or not. Imagine you are driving a fast car like a Porsche or a Maserati. Maybe you do not want to be monitored all the time based on your driving on German roads. But you know, you know very good example.
0:19:04 - Alex
but very fortunately, my partner will keep me away from premium rates on the unwrapped vehicles. So I see that you're providing this differentiated value on top of like through the better, richer data you're kind of keep. You still have this competitiveness in terms of price, so you really don't have the price differential as easily as maybe some other industries like fashion and luxury, like. If this is not the same, you can't create like. Oh, you only need to have a different currency, right? That doesn't work, doesn't work. So, no, a little bit.
Let's come back to you Like. One of the reasons I love to have you here is you inspired us originally with like. You were one of the first adapters of related to back when you were running startup bootcamp insure attack in the UK and US, and then you were able to get a lot of people to know you're an IT team member in the UK and US and and then you're you're repeating the innovation playbook with Alchemy crew and I'm really interested in kind of your story of how you were able to build up so much trust, have a community of. You know these, some of the most respected organizations that are looking to you as a kind of a connector for you know how, how did you manage to pull that off? Because a lot of people want to be in that innovation game but it's really hard to stay in it, and stay in it for a long, sustainable time.
0:20:46 - Sabine
Well, you stay safe, so you need to stick to it. You need to make choices and then you stick to it. I've been I mean I've been in insurance for 25 years and I stuck to my industry. I do work with banks and financial services institution but you know, think about banks, as you know, having pension funds and doing asset management like insurance company do. So there's this extension and some of them you know when they do mortgage and the insurance products as well. So you have this connection between finance and insurance as well.
I mean, because I've been in in industry for 25 years and I'm fortunate, I've worked before going into insure tech for big companies IBM, BWC, pega, our big companies and in my roles is always being around strategy, translating technology capabilities to make it simpler for executives to understand.
It's always been about value creation. You know value creation and value realizations, understanding the levers of value, and so I've always used those frameworks you know those capabilities in my life. So a reason I think the industry trust me is I'm very demanding on myself. I read a lot and I believe knowledge is everything and, as you know, I write a lot. I mean I'm considered as for sure a thought leader and influencer, a tech ambassador and activator in my industry. But the key thing is you give a lot right, you write a lot, you read a lot, you actually process that knowledge, you try to make it simpler for others to understand and that's, that's right, the conversations and then you realize, you know you can actually package that information, that knowledge, in different ways to make it easier for those target audience to process, because you want them to be successful.
And as long as you focus on other people's success. I think that has always been my, my motto. You know it's like come out. If you focus on other people's success, it's just come back to you. I think I'm fortunate. Yes, I work with insurance companies in Asia, in Europe, united States, and we are trusted in each other. We can talk to each other two o'clock in the morning, we can go dancing with one another, but that is because of years of dealing value and they know whether it's me or my team, we will actually put the hours to get the things done to the highest level of perfection for them to meet their goals right the internal goals and objectives.
0:23:19 - Alex
So trust is not an overnight thing. It's 25 years is sort of a deep, deep commitment. Now there is something more recent that you're doing which is a podcast called Scouting for Growth. Yeah Right, so tell us about it, tell about the genesis of you know why you started that, and is that expanding your audience? Because I think it does have. From my a few listens, you know, not just purely insurance-focused conversations, and how are you finding that mix right? So, like the, you know you have the super deep expertise and all things insurance and related areas and finance and healthcare, and then now you're expanding a little bit from that to broader audience.
0:24:06 - Sabine
Yeah, so think COVID-19. And, as you do during those times where you're spending so much time at home, you just educate yourself and find new things. I was fortunate enough that you know part of a group where a lot of those people as part of the tribe are very influential people. I would not think Kardashian influence, but pretty influential.
0:24:31 - Alex
And the Kardashian of insurance.
0:24:33 - Sabine
Yeah well, the Kardashian of entrepreneurship, let's call them the Kardashian of entrepreneurship.
So people, millionaires, and you know they have learned to monetize their brand through various channels and one of them is podcasting. So one of them said you know, here's my friend, you need to go and learn how to podcast with this person. But OK, let me check it out. And then I just took a course. You know it's like was two days course Sundays, saturday, sunday where you could deep dive around. You know what is a podcast and why.
You know podcasting is one of the best things in the world and when I listen to the stats I say actually that's not, that's not bad. You know that was three years ago. There was 1.2 million podcasts in the United States. There were only 250,000 podcasts in the UK is like, ok, we are 64 million, 65 million people, and if we are going to look at Europe, you know I'm probably as big as the United States, so my target market is not small. You know you go into the calculations, but we are only 250,000 podcasts in the UK and we had 1.2 million podcasts in the United States.
So you know, if you want to get started, you probably need to start now, because everybody will jam on that bandwagon at some point. So I did the course and the nice things with you know, this group of people is like. I mean, at the end of the day, you know about content. You are not there to do the production, we will produce. You just do the content. So you get started and you know, you learn, you know and I have to re-record some of my earlier podcasts because you know you do mistakes and this part of learning how to do a podcast and so over time, you find your voice, you find your values and the direction.
Because Scouting for Girls the reason why I put Scouting for Girls together is it was all about venturing, and I'm fascinated about corporate venturing because I work with corporate and I want you to corporate to understand how to venturing better.
So I talk to VCs a lot, right, and I work with startups and I work with corporations and I hold, ok, how can we teach that corporate venturing? Because when I look at the numbers, you know you have 100,000, now probably 150,000, just fintech startups, but only 30% of those guys have raised money. So it's probably raised what? 750 billion, which is not insignificant, but only 30%. So you have 70% of those guys who have not raised money. And I'm not saying everybody wants to fund it. But so what are the nuggets as to how to find money? Second, what can cooperation do for B2B? Because one of my core skill is to work with B2B startups, and so that's the way the genesis of the podcast started.
So then I thought, ok, my target market will be corporates. You know the insurance company. I work with the investors, I work with the startups, I work with you. Don't want to feed more insurance stuff to those people, I realize as well, because actually they want to learn from other industries. And that's where actually, you know, from talking to insurance, people only gradually started talking to fintech people, to cybersecurity people, to AI people, because we are trying to solve problems. And if you actually solving problems, we're just talking to people in your naval area. You're not really solving problems, you're just reinforcing the same message. So, yes, you will listen to my podcast and the key thing is when I have investors, I will have corporates, I will have non insurance people, I will have cyber AI, you know, and people reach out to me all the time now to be on podcast. So I have to think, you know, do I want you or not on a podcast?
But, one thing which is interesting is you know three? No, it's two years, right? I started in January 2022, so December 2021 was the launch, launch in 2022. So I'm two years. I'm now at 170,000 downloads, Number 30, I think, in the UK entrepreneurship and it moves right, but I'm average last week, 30,. I'm 250 in the United States, so I'm doing pretty OK, right After just two years.
0:28:52 - Alex
That's really amazing. I think I know why you're doing so well. I think you're just a generous human being and I think that sort of sounds like a cliche, maybe, but I think you're just making, you're creating connections, you're being authentic, you're being yourself, and I think that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you here.
0:29:13 - Sabine
Thank you.
0:29:13 - Alex
Selfishly is just to. You could have got a little bit of Sabine vibe, because we're like a baby podcaster compared to you, just kind of like still like trying to figure out what the diapers are and how to put them on. But I think the there's something really special, whether it's in the podcast mode or I think the way you've run startup bootcamp events or alchemy crew activities that you do is you kind of have a sense of a community that you're building, and part of that is being open. Part of that is being real, not pretending, not saying, hey, everything is awesome, da, da, da, da. So it's just very exciting and well deserved to see that you're spreading out, because I think the way you're doing things whether it's an insurance or kind of fintech world is really like it's just good practice, it's just what good humans, good professionals do. So thank you for doing that.
0:30:15 - Sabine
And you know you meet amazing people and you meet amazing people. Sometimes, you know, on my podcast I meet people and we become best friends. I know I can reach out. If I have like any fractional CFO, I can go and find them, and you know what I mean.
0:30:30 - Alex
You have to equate those connections who are there for you lifelong, I feel that it's almost like one of the joys and you're obviously an entrepreneur yourself in starting your own businesses and publications. One of the joys of entrepreneurial journey is that you meet amazing people and I think the reason I think podcast is interesting is almost like a window of a day today, because you and I we were just catching up on working opportunities the other day and so this is us doing some of the same things. On that note, you mentioned AI and obviously this is something that pop of mind for everyone. You recently did some work on Wimbledon AI. Tell us your thoughts, tell us.
You know you already talked a little bit about relevance for insurance and kind of simplifying access to complex information, but you know you probably have other friends that you're seeing across industries or insure tech as well. Like, let's dive into that a little bit. Everybody wants to speak to innovators, but you are like the collector of all the innovation. You see all the innovations that are happening in the marketplace. You know, can you, can you synthesize some of that for us?
0:31:48 - Sabine
Joe, yeah, I'm fortunate that I work with brands which want to find, you know, horizon to in three staff, and so they give me problem statements and my team and I we go and find them. You know, think about a mandate, go and find out what is going on on this problem and then we solve it by really understanding it and then by identifying the ventures. You know, a lot of our work has always been with startup ventures looking at, you know, innovation on the stage, because that shows you where the potential is, partly when you start looking at where investors are putting most of their money. But we also look at big tech and big organizations. So, when you mentioned Wimbledon, I'm very fortunate that I work very closely with IBM and they invited me at Wimbledon to help me experience Wimbledon and through that experience, I was able to go to the engine room and see all the amazing tech happening at Wimbledon and the generative AI which you know. If you picked up your phone during Wimbledon, you could actually experience a number of features that were launched for the 2023 Wimbledon. You could actually see which players you know, literally as they were playing. You know you will get the commentary and they would be live commentary and they would be generative AI generated and then you would have the ability to track which winner may win again by looking at predictions and sensitive analysis and AI and all those things, and then you could actually see, like a decision tree, who would be with. Now you can see it right, because the tournament is finished, but if you were on the app, you would experience that and that was, for me, an interesting experience, because what you learn is not just about the foundation model it had to be a foundation model for Wimbledon. It had to be a secured model using, you know, valid external data sources, because then you have to provide the information to your fans all around the globe but it was also about governance and so understanding what governance and responsible AI was about.
So you asked me about the trend. Yeah, you know, ai, generative AI is a big trend, tell you. I just finished a keynote for one of the top insurers in this world. I'm presenting on at one of their conference next week and I'll say you know, generative AI didn't start in November 2022, we mean it's 1950. I mean it's just starting a while ago. It just didn't pay. You know, people didn't pay attention. You know, for the past years, three to four billion were investing in generative AI startups. This year, so far, there's 14 billion has been invested in generative AI, and we believe that it would be 18 to 20 billion by the end of the year. So this is a year of generative AI and you see a lot of innovation around marketing you know your space, that you would expect you know, around content creation, accelerating content creation, image creation.
Myself I use, you know, mejone, but also love using Leonardo AI, because Leonardo, for instance, allow me to do prompting I'm not an expert prompt, but actually correct my prompts so that I can do the right prompt for the right imagery.
Then so you start combining all those capabilities which are around you to actually help you make your job easier, faster. But what you actually start realizing is orchestration of generative AI is going to be the next big thing, something helping you know. Today you have to use this and then you have to use that, because it's very difficult then to enable teams with all those tools and knowing which one they have to use when. So generative AI is going to be super big, but that entails also cloud, hybrid cloud. So when you start implementing it in a corporate environment, you need the private cloud for your data in the public cloud for external data sources, and you need that architecture to be really, really good. But that also entails quantum computing, because now, if you plug quantum to that generative AI and that data, then you can actually start making decision even before you have thought about it, which is a big thing.
0:36:02 - Alex
But I think the way we think about this is sort of generative AI is a step to interaction, interactive AI effectively where it actually drives interaction, and we are kind of a little bit you know, because we're already taking the images and the text and we're turning them into an interactive experience. In some ways, we're generating interactive AI. So we love this trend and I think it's exactly you know when you start pulling together different mini apps into a workflow that addresses the need, because you're right, like somebody innovative, like yourself knows what to use for what. Somebody who may not be as innovative may be overwhelmed by the variety of rules.
0:36:44 - Sabine
You're overwhelmed and actually does.
0:36:46 - Alex
And then half of them your enterprise doesn't even allow you to use, and then they use hallucination. So we've been very careful that, hey, we're only taking this content that is approved for this particular data. We can use the language models to interrogate it, but the content that we're reading is restricted. For example, right, it could be in our case it's in the cloud, so we're not seeing that it has to be always enterprise has to be in house or it could have private clouds, but I think obviously differs by data sets and what data you're putting in. So let's switch a little bit. So we talked about AI and technology. Obviously, the podcast is focused on experiential human experiences, whatever the industry in your case, insurance. But let's talk about your experiences. What kind of motivates you? So I have a few questions that we kind of had into the last few minutes. What is your favorite book in general? Or maybe something you've read recently that kind of build you up with insights and experiences that you remember and you know they motivated you in some way, shape or form.
0:38:06 - Sabine
So I'm a bookworm and so I do read a lot, and I have to say that the world we're moving in changes a lot, I think, for anybody to spend some time to read. You know, alex Austin Waters books around business model design and how to build an invincible company, and all those things. Those are, you know, things we all need to master as business people. The one which is on my bedside right now is the economic singularity. And so, because I just carry book, you know it's all about AI and it's highlighting as we, as individuals, when we are living in this knowledge economy. And so what's going to be the jobs of tomorrow? You know, think about labor market going to reduce, potentially because of generative AI, because of artificial intelligence, not just generative AI, and so what jobs are we going to hold? And it's an interesting thesis because, you know, once upon a time, when you look at the older age, you know I would have like a big pompom dress and I will be reading philosophy, right? And are we going back?
0:39:25 - Alex
to smoking. You'll be smoking cigarettes and cafe. The philosopher and remote math.
0:39:31 - Sabine
Right, it will be all about the number.
0:39:34 - Alex
We will be talking. I get to do my.
0:39:38 - Sabine
I get to do my French accent, yeah exactly, but think about that and so, but at the same time, when you think about, you know, ford and the bit of mechanism where you know we had machinery to actually build the cars. We had a period where people lost their job. They were not building the cars but then we had, you know, new jobs being created. So we are going to go into a phase where it's going to be painful we call that a luminal phase where we don't know what is going to happen. However, we are going to come out of that and I think this book is an interesting reality check for all of us to really understand our core and what is the values and our purpose in this world.
0:40:25 - Alex
Actually, Great, great read. Thank you for the recommendation. All right, next question Tell us about your most memorable experience as a teenager.
0:40:36 - Sabine
As a teenager. Oh my goodness, so you talk about 10?
0:40:40 - Alex
years ago, 10 years ago, you know whatever yes.
0:40:44 - Sabine
So you know it's still in my head but I don't smoke. I've never smoked. But you know when things in France is, if you want to belong to the tribe you have to smoke. So I bought my first packet of cigarette and I took one and I tried it. It's like what the ble tf. You know, it's disgusting me. So I proceed with my pack cigarette to the school and I asked my friends and colleagues about it and I spent the whole day with that pack and I ended up giving it to a friend. Like you know, it's not me, I'm never going to smoke here. You smoke, take it. So it's a memorable experience because I realized I would never smoke in my life.
0:41:26 - Alex
So you felt you were true to yourself from from from the beginning. Great, great, great foundation of entrepreneur. So, on that note, you know you're inspiring many other people in the industry, myself included. Who inspires you? Who do you follow? Who kind of you know forces you to say, hey, I can, I can do a bit more, I can think differently.
0:41:54 - Sabine
You know you will probably not be surprised, but you know the usual. You know Richard Branson, gates and for sure, when it doesn't annoys me, elon Musk. I would say, however, you know as female, you know inspiration, you know, as you bring your personal brand and authentic brands, you actually have your, your go to personalities and mind is uprow and free. You know, in insurance people call me the approved insurance and I tend to take this very, very seriously, for sure Beyonce, because of woman power, and I would also say Rihanna, because people don't realize that Rihanna has built many companies. Right, you have a lot of things, that she's a billionaire and all those things. And what I learned when I look at those personalities? No, strong woman, you know, not pretty arrogant in their style, but they know how to make money.
0:42:51 - Alex
This is great. I, by the way, have you started reading the new Elon Musk book yet by Walter Eichsson? I've got it in my audio book thing and I think you're right. Like it puts a perspective on where you can be annoying and where, like, where you could be inspiring, and it's really hard to figure out you know how do you find your own balance between them? I mean?
0:43:15 - Sabine
it's long term and easy. What is a contrarian ledges be clear when you get provoked is a contrarian and you need to actually feel comfortable to understand is going to always annoy people in some ways it is his personality, but he thinks long term. You know, when you look at space X and when you look at Tesla, you have to. You know to actually acknowledge he's an amazing person, even though sometimes it can be difficult to understand.
0:43:43 - Alex
You just need to, you just need to take the best of opera and Elon Musk and something magical might happen. That's that like ability to take that division with the humanity at an individual level. Yeah, great, I think it sounds like this is what you're really aiming for big ideas, big impact, but like having a very human, authentic connection at the same time. And I think this is really wonderful, and I'm not noted me. It may actually, you know, you may have already answered it, but let me ask the last question and this, by the way, new, new way we're trying to to ask some interesting questions. But if you could have a dinner, was one person dead or alive, who would that be?
0:44:28 - Sabine
for me and we're number one, would be probably opera. Actually, yeah, we're probably free, or you know, elon Musk, to actually tell him how much he drives me crazy right now. Right, because I'm an influencer. So therefore, social media platform I important, jimmy X, twitter is become a nightmare for many influencers because we don't understand it, and but it will be a balance between the two. But you know, look at all those amazing people, right, richard Branson, if I go to the Caribbean, so it would be nice. Bill Gates, I guess you know if I'm in the state. Elon Musk, if I go to California, you know, so, on and so forth. I think that actually a friend of mine says that beyond his panel, at first short in Texas, where she lives, but she goes a lot to Atlanta. So who knows, who knows?
0:45:20 - Alex
I'm sure. I'm sure they would be delighted to connect with you, so being this has been really fantastic. Where can people find you, your podcast? What's the best way for our audience to engage with your content? Or was you?
0:45:35 - Sabine
And with me, the best place will be LinkedIn. Right, I have the name on LinkedIn. It will be sub in VDL on Twitter, instagram. Sub in VDL official. My podcast is on all major channels. Spotify is cutting for growth. You know, go and have a look. You know, look at. You know, this past year's content always improving and always taking feedback as well, because those are long term projects is not something you just dive in and just disappear, right. And, by the way, yes, you know, I know I have to record some of my earliest podcast, but that is on the way.
0:46:14 - Alex
Well, I'm love to see how you're innovating, how you're inventing the industry, how you're creating new, bringing new services and products to the market. Look forward to collaborating further, sabine, and thank you for supporting ecosystem and you know us back in the early days that relate to always always have a special place in my heart. I know who support you before you figure out what you're doing and they just see the potential and bring out the potential and others, and I think that's a great you know reputation that you have a bring, bring up potential and connecting the dots. So thank you so much for joining us and please reach out to Sabine If you want to get inspired and if you want to get an edge on what's happening. Insurance and broader financial services All right, thank you very much.
0:47:04 - Sabine
Bye.