0:00:01 - Alex Shevelenko
Welcome to Experience-focused Leaders! I'm your host, Alex Shevelenko, and I'm delighted to introduce you to Alex Theuma, the co-founder and CEO of SaaStock. And in the SaaStock community Alex needs no introductions. Alex, could you please tell us a little bit about what SaaStock is?
0:00:24 - Alex Theuma
Yeah, thanks for having me here, Alex! Good to speak to another Alex. While that's been so many SaaStocks, as you said, I’m the founder of SaaStock and it's been running well, the first event since 2016. But the business was started in 2015. So we're going a little over eight years now, getting wider and hopefully better at what we're doing. And what is it that we're doing? Ultimately, it's all around the community for B2B SaaS.
So we started with community-driven content, meetups, Slack channels, etc., and that led to us putting on the first B2B SaaS conference in Europe, namely SaaStock, which happens in Dublin every year. That scaled up to now roughly about 4,000 attendees predominantly and more than 50% of B2B SaaS founders, a lot of their C-suite team and investors, and I guess, not only up-and-coming but also innovative SaaS products and companies that want to sell to other SaaS companies. So we have a large expo part of it, both from the bigger companies and unicorns that you'll know and love, like G2 or Intercom to the startup expo area.
The main event is in Dublin. We also launched in the US last year, which was 2023. So upcoming USA event number two is happening in May. We are probably less known because we don't do as much marketing. All the marketing is consumed, I would say, mostly by the events. We have a product called the SaaStock Founder Membership, which is an easy way to describe it. And if you know what these are, it's like an EO or YPO for SaaS. But really we want to build the world's leading support organization for B2B SaaS founders. So that they can come together and have a curated mastermind on a monthly basis, build out a global network of founders that are a few steps ahead of them, and get the right education they need to scale to 10 million ARR and far beyond.
0:02:47 - Alex Shevelenko
Amazing! Well, I can vouch for the amazing experiences that you create in Dublin. And I know you're innovating across the range from digital to physical experiences and on the founder membership. I know you're also doing cool events where people go to places. You make an offer you cannot refuse: go to a multi-coast and drink a lot of limoncello with fellow SaaS founders.
0:03:16 - Alex Theuma
We have the best limoncello!
0:03:19 - Alex Shevelenko
And learn a lot in that environment which is authentic and open. So I think you're doing a great service to the global SaaS community. I think, especially if you put yourself in places like Silicon Valley where it comes from, like, “Yeah, there is already an ecosystem there. There's a lot of inside knowledge.” You go anywhere outside of the Valley — basically, even in Austin, Seattle and New York that knowledge, the concentration is not quite there.
So you're creating this new hub that's virtual and physical around the world with meetups. I think this is amazing because the best SaaS founders keep learning from each other. You mentioned Godard Abel. I think it is a mutual admiration clap for Godard. He was a guest on this pod as well. What we probably both admire about somebody like that who's had multiple billion-dollar exits, he just keeps learning, he's a learning machine. He recommends what he's doing. So you're creating this playbook for startups around the world.
0:04:46 - Alex Theuma
Thanks, you probably said it better than I did. Ultimately, we are facilitating these connections and learnings by putting on the events or through the SaaStock Founder Membership, and there is more to it. You say you get the right people there and the magic happens. But there has to be a lot of work behind that and then also the curation of the experience there. So I think, and this is a big thing for us this year, serendipity in events has been certainly almost like part of the strategy. Like, okay, you just find a venue, invite the right people and you just let the magic happen because everybody's under the one roof right now. If you're doing an event of three or 4,000 people, it can be you all have serendipitous moments, right? But it can also be really hard to necessarily meet the right people for you that are the right value, maybe your future customers or investors. So there has to be more to that. We'll soon be publicly saying about serendipity being dead and that we have to look more at the experience and facilitating these one-to-one connections, which are probably the most useful things that people get out of the events.
Actually, I'm very excited about the SaaStock in Dublin this year, which will really be our first version of a new product. We're not like ripping everything out and throwing it away. It has been working. But it's also quite funny because, if you think about it again, SaaStock is eight years old. The first one was in 2016. The product has been a slow evolution, but a lot of what happened there is still there today. We're not like SaaS companies coming out with new features every week or every month. So I think we're long overdue. This is the industry. But at SaaStock we like to try and lead the way, even though there are some out there that are doing certain things better than us. So look this year at SaaStock. I'm super excited there are going to be new products, new experiences, and hopefully, that will make for the best one.
0:07:23 - Alex Shevelenko
I want to vouch for how SaaStock continues to innovate on a consistent basis.
I think when we were looking for our design partners, we are very fortunate to work with SaaS innovators like Salesforce on the one hand, but we were looking at who could be in the SaaS industry, who is smaller and has lots of amazing content. And so we were very fortunate to partner together with you, Alex. One of the reasons I think you picked us in the first place and we loved the partnership is that you really care about creating a great visual experience at the event, around the event, creating wonderful opportunities for sponsors to look well and professional, and create something that's, at the same time authentic. I think you're right, it doesn't happen just by serendipity above a certain number. I think you're very deliberate about creating experiences before, during, after the event, and so on. So I salute you, and I would agree that the innovation in the event industry is not as rapid as SaaS products. It feels stale at times.
0:08:46 - Alex Theuma
And probably the biggest innovation in the event industry over the last 40 years or so was the invention of virtual events and virtual conferences which then were obvious. Then it just exploded everywhere because it was really the only thing you could do during COVID. Now we're back in person. That's kind of gone away. Then most of these event organizers and companies who were excited about this kind of innovation are now just going back to doing the same thing that they've been doing for many years, right? That's kind of a funny thing about the biggest innovation is now dead, but at least these things have been tried.
We are cognizant of the fact that we need to innovate and, obviously, there is the saying “Innovate or die”. I do believe that while SaaStock is great today if we just continue doing the same thing we're doing for the next eight years, we probably won't be around or we will have plateaued. So I think now is the time that we're really going to take the bit between our teeth and innovate in 2024.
0:10:03 - Alex Shevelenko
Let's dive into your business a little bit and what are some of the innovation pillars around it.
0:10:12 - Alex Theuma
Yeah, I don't want to give away everything.
0:10:16 - Alex Shevelenko
We'll take it. But I want to give a shout-out to you. You're the podcasting veteran, with the SaaS Revolution show now having over 400 episodes. It represents innovation and ongoing learning versus the traditional paradigm of one-time events. It reinforces the community you're building with guest speakers who share their expertise. I'm curious, what's that been like?
0:10:51 - Alex Theuma
Right. What advice do you have for new podcasters? Well, the podcasting journey started in 2015. I had a blog called SaaScribe at the time, which focused on community-driven content. I thought, look, I may as well do a podcast, right? I had never done it before, and there was a little bit of fear and imposter syndrome because I hadn’t done it. Who am I to interview these people? My first guest was Mark Roberge, who was the CRO at HubSpot at the time, so that was a pretty good start.
The timing was good because the way he landed Mark was by having his book out, The Sales Acceleration Formula, which is a must-read if you're in SaaS. It details how he built the sales team to reach 100 million ARR with HubSpot, which is now probably around two billion ARR—I don't know the exact number, but it's pretty significant. Although Mark is no longer with HubSpot, he's still investing. I approached him and asked, “Hey, do you want to come on my B2B SaaS podcast, where we can talk about your book?” He would be the first guest.
Of course, there was no audience initially, but strategically, that really helped. For about five or six years, that was the most listened-to episode—episode number one. It grew over time because it's evergreen content. I think the success of that first episode was largely due to having a fantastic guest, which allowed us to leap forward many years just by landing him.
You know, high-quality guests helped me land a lot of great guests. In the first few months, I had Byron Deeter from Bessemer Venture Partners and Eoghan McCabe from Intercom, among others. There was just me, you know, in my bedroom, reaching out for a few months. Having some notable people I could reference probably gave me an unfair advantage back then, as nobody else was really doing it. I think there was only one other B2B SaaS podcast at the time, and now everybody's doing it.
0:12:56 - Alex Shevelenko
But now that you're famous, I could go after this episode and say, “Hey, I had Alex here on this one!” There we go, there we go. You’ve got to follow where the SaaS leaders are. So, podcasts are one area. Let’s focus on running the business. When you’re running an event-driven, content-driven business, sponsors are probably the biggest source of revenue. Is that accurate?
0:13:22 - Alex Theuma
Correct? Yeah, roughly around 70%. It used to be about 50% for the first three years, but it's grown to 70%.
0:13:33 - Alex Shevelenko
Great. I know that you guys are very thoughtful about creating a high-velocity, engaging experience for sponsors. You provide the sponsorship portfolio and options clearly. We’ve been fortunate to observe how you’re innovating by integrating videos, so you don’t just say, “Hey, trust us, we’re awesome.” You show what really happens, providing concrete examples. You also give people time-saving options so they can jump to the areas that interest them. How has that approach paid off? It seems like many event businesses struggle with their economics, and I know the SaaS industry has been going through a relatively tough period, but you're continuing to put on a great show. Can you tell us a bit more about where you’re innovating in terms of velocity or expansion of your business?
0:14:36 - Alex Theuma
I mean, I guess it starts with the reference you made, but I’m not sure it’s clear to the audience.
In the sales process, we're doing our job here today to show that they’re making a wise choice when we think about experience.
If we look at today, most sales meetings are conducted over Zoom or online, and we want to ensure a good experience throughout. All of our partnership and sales materials, including decks, run on RELAYTO. As you said, there may be videos embedded, as well as navigation and user experiences that we want to give customers to create a "wow" moment and a feeling that they’re not just going through a boring PDF. So hopefully, we get a feeling, reaction, something from that initial user experience which not only shows that we get it and we care. We're putting detail not only in the decks around experience but through to the actual physical event.
You know, we're backing it up by showing you. On the sales call, people can see the same thing if they go to the SaaStock website; we put a video there, or we have a section dedicated to the SaaStock experience. People will notice that, and you know, that runs on RELAYTO. You can download the decks, but it's also nice when the sales team runs through that with you. I think all of this is really helpful in creating a positive pre-experience.
Then, you know, let's say a partner signs up. In the run-up to the event, it can sometimes be 12 months out, sometimes nine, sometimes six, or even two months before. But then we support them with the right materials and hubs to provide all the information they need about the event—what’s going to happen, what they need, and maybe what they need to purchase in addition to the stands they build. We offer custom-built stands in a turnkey package, and we don't skimp on expenses there to ensure a really nice, uniform look and feel, right through to the custom booths they may build themselves using their budget.
It's very important for us that the entire expo area has a great look and feel that matches their experience from start to finish.
On top of that, we maintain high service levels. I know, without naming names, that some conferences sign up partners and then don't really communicate or provide any service between the time they've signed and when the actual event takes place. It's almost like it's over to the partners, with little effort put into the booths and how they look and feel. But we're very much the opposite; we genuinely care about that.
0:17:44 - Alex Shevelenko
We invest in that, right from things like RELAYTO all the way through to the actual physical event itself. I think the origins of SaaS, if I read it correctly, come from your being a fan of Jimi Hendrix and the Woodstock experience, and you wanted to capture that essence.
Yeah, exactly. You wanted to create this rock and roll, memorable, lifelong experience that you take away with you. That care, I think, absolutely permeates everything. What’s the first thing you typically remember about an event? It’s like a wedding invitation.
Right, it’s the invitation itself, and the stories you share about what you’re going to have there. I think you’re being very thorough with the pre-event, the event, and the post-event communications. For me, this core theme is customer obsession, right? You guys actually deliver for customers. I’m sure people come back year after year. I’ve seen the same sponsors for many years, and they keep coming back, sharing their stories and exhibiting. So tell us a little bit about where this comes from—like you and Will—and the DNA you bring as leaders.
0:19:08 - Alex Theuma
Yeah, for this, I think it absolutely is. I guess it comes from the very first SaaStock, which has become part of my DNA. I over-invested in that first SaaStock. I had 12 months to think about it, which you actually don’t need if you’re putting on an event like SaaStock. Six months is really the go-to-market time. There is probably a 12-month cycle in some of the preparation, but you could put an event like SaaStock together in six months. Whether it would be as good as SaaStock or not, I don’t know, but for that very first SaaStock, I over-invested, and I thought about things like the beer mats and the branding of those flags we would have there.
0:19:47 - Alex Shevelenko
Well, beer mats for Dublin. That’s pretty important. You know that. Exactly.
0:19:53 - Alex Theuma
We had a pop-out at the back, which was also pretty important for Dublin. We run a founders' retreat called SaaS Society for founders with over five million in revenue who are scaling to want to reach 100. For the first SaaS Society, maybe in the first two years, I spent a lot of money on invitations. We would get them printed on really nice paper and had our own wax seal to fold the invitations, so it was like a wedding invitation— the SaaS doc version. Now, we don’t do that because it’s one of those things that has come off the P&L. But if I had my way, and if I weren’t managing the P&L, I would get these kinds of things through because they all add up.
But I think that DNA, as you also mentioned, relates to Jimi Hendrix, Woodstock, the rock and roll. We kind of wanted this, too. To not just be a boring B2B conference where you have meetings.
We want people to feel that this experience was more than just an event. It was like attending a rock and roll event or a festival in Dublin, but with SaaS founders. I’ve had a great time, and even if I’m a bit hungover or tired, it has been a memorable experience beyond all the value I’ve gained from it. This stems from the attention to detail that we put into it. I think the DNA definitely comes from me, but it has been passed on to the team members like Will, Racker, and Joe—people who have been with the company for five or six years. They carry that spirit, and I hope they will continue to do so for many more years to come.
0:21:38 - Alex Shevelenko
One part of that DNA is that you also attract amazing, innovative marketers. Often, you have CEOs of companies that are either sponsors or guest speakers. What trends do you see when talking to the crème de la crème of the international SaaS community? Maybe let’s divide it into marketing teams and their senior leadership, whether they are marketers or from other areas. What makes for a great SaaS marketing team based on your observations from your interactions with all the sponsors?
0:22:21 - Alex Theuma
Yeah, it’s a good question. To be honest, I’m not really speaking to that many SaaS marketers myself these days. Generally, I’m more focused on helping out with the speaker front. We do have marketers involved, but I’m largely engaging more with the founder side. I guess the sales teams would primarily be speaking with the marketers who have the budgets.
The question is, what makes a great marketing team right now? It’s super interesting because, as you mentioned in the podcast, SaaS has probably been going through a bit of a hard time, especially over the last year, after the crazy times of 2020 and 2021. We’re kind of resetting and going back to 2019 levels, maybe a little bit above that.
With that, the challenges for marketers have been that marketing budgets are often the first to be slashed. Event budgets are cut, and the overall marketing budget is reduced. You can’t buy the new technology that would help you as a marketer. So, I think the ones that are winning have a lot of creativity and resilience. They need to get through when many channels may not be available to them. These are some of the things we’re likely seeing.
Also, the marketing team, particularly the CMO, is obviously the top job in marketing, but it’s probably the hardest job too. The top jobs are always the hardest jobs, right? That’s what you hear.
0:24:11 - Alex Shevelenko
But the CMOs do get fired quite a lot.
0:24:14 - Alex Theuma
They do. The tenure of a CMO—like people, SaaS companies, or generally companies—do not have patience with the CMO, and I think it's tougher than for a CRO or sales leader. They tend to stick around less because they get fired.
I think the secret sauce—what I like about the recent podcast we had with the CEO of Musecom, who just crossed 100 million in ARR—is that they hired a CMO when they were around 10 million in ARR. Luckily, or maybe it wasn’t luck but brilliance, they got it right. That CMO is still with them today, five years later, as they reach 100 million in ARR. I think it highlights the importance of making the right hire, which so many of us fail to do. Similarly, I think of Cognizant, and you might know James Mescall.
0:25:09 - Alex Shevelenko
CEO.
0:25:09 - Alex Theuma
Cognizant. You know, one big part of their success in reaching their current level— I don't know if they’re at 50 or 60 million in ARR—was the hiring of Alice; well, I can't remember her last name, but she's their CMO, right? That's been pivotal for them. If you get that right, it can be crucial for a SaaS business. Unfortunately, many of us don’t. So, yeah, just some thoughts around that.
0:25:33 - Alex Shevelenko
That may actually lead to the CEO-level folks, right? I think one of the challenges for SaaS CMOs right now, especially in typical B2B businesses, is integrating product-led growth (PLG) and a middle-out type of motion. You have inside sales, and then you need to expand that into the enterprise.
There are a lot of channels, right? You're one of those channels, and then there are digital channels. We are also a channel in some ways. The mental complexity of keeping all this in mind on a tactical level, while still being able to execute and develop a creative brand strategy, is significant. You’re obviously focused on creating a branded experience for your clients that stands out. It feels like there are so many different personalities that need to come together to successfully integrate all this, along with the depth of skill required. That presents a challenge for any executive. But I wonder if you see a particular difficulty in SaaS, given the variety of sales motions. Is it becoming increasingly hard for one person to manage all these complexities?
0:26:52 - Alex Theuma
What I’ve seen is that, as we know, when you start a SaaS business—maybe this is true in other types of businesses as well—but this is where I’ve learned about it. In SaaS, the key to success and getting to product market fit is usually really identifying that ICP, the ideal customer profile. Oten that ICP can evolve and change. Typically, with our customers over the years, I would say up until last year, it was clear who we were selling to. We’d target, for instance, the CEO of SaaS companies with 100 to 500 employees, or the Chief People Officer of companies with 50 to 200 employees. SaaS companies have been very specific about their ideal buyer.
Now, as the market has shifted and certain budgets are tightening, I’m seeing a trend where we’re not only selling to the CFO but also to the CRO, the CMO, and others. This requires multiple types of messaging and, for events, raises the question of how to attract all these people. We need to provide something for everyone and give them a real reason to attend. This has made things a bit more complex for us, but it’s also a perfect opportunity.
0:28:20 - Alex Shevelenko
Alex, you have three boosts for one company and one for each persona.
0:28:26 - Alex Theuma
It must be complex for them and their marketing teams, having all these different personas. Now that the SaaS company is saying, "We need to sell to all these people," it’s like, okay, maybe you’ve widened the pool, but that really impacts the types of marketing, persona-based emailing, segmentation of your database, and everything else you need to do, right? I think that’s part of why we were drawn to work together.
0:28:53 - Alex Shevelenko
You want to create a personalized experience for your customers, right? Sometimes that means understanding different perspectives—maybe I'm the CMO, but I care about the end users because I know that’s the key issue, or I care about ROI because that’s a priority. Most likely, I care about all of these, but then, how do you guide me on a journey that gives me the right experiences? That’s why your events are so valuable—you help people discover relevant materials. This is also why we partner together. In today’s complex world, it’s important to provide targeted messages but also to help people find their own path, giving them that option.
Are there any other insights you've gathered from working with so many CEOs? You meet and interview them all the time, so consider me a sponge here, ready to absorb it all. What advice would you give to a CEO like me, aiming for $10 million ARR? What do you see as the biggest levers for growth?
0:30:16 - Alex Theuma
That's a really good question. I think one thing—whether everyone knows this or not—is that all the successful people I've spoken to over eight years, through 400 podcast episodes and speaking with founders and CEOs at SaaStock, none of them achieved success on their own. They didn’t figure it all out by themselves, which is why SaaStock exists. It might seem obvious, but I know so many smart SaaS founders who don’t attend events. Some think they’ve already read everything out there and don’t need to learn more, yet they’re stuck at $2 million ARR. There’s always more to learn by connecting with other founders and keeping up with what’s happening now.
Take, for example, the founders we’ve mentioned with admiration—successful entrepreneurs with billion-dollar exits who are still constantly learning and surrounding themselves with a strong support network of CEOs, coaches, and other key people.
It’s clear to me that when you reach a certain size, maybe around $5 million ARR, you really need to build that support network around you. This could include CEOs, executive coaches, or others in leadership who can help you succeed. And beyond that, I think it’s critical to stay curious, fixated on learning, and engaged in continuous growth. Most founders are learning as they go, and that’s so important. Lastly, being customer-obsessed is key—the customers hold the key to our success, and we’re always listening to them. Over the last six months we've learned so much from our customers, which is a big reason that we are now innovating. Or you know the SaaS dot, two, dot oh, which is going to come in Dublin. And if you don't speak to your customers, if you're not obsessed with them, then you're leading yourself down the wrong path. Sure, perfect.
0:33:05 - Alex Shevelenko
So, for all those curious leaders in SaaS who are customer-obsessed, always learning, and looking to build a support network, there’s SaaStock. Where can people find you and join this wonderful community that you've co-created with other leading SaaS founders?
0:33:28 - Alex Theuma
Yeah, the easiest way is to go to saas.com, where you’ll see our suite of events, content, the podcast, and the SaaStock Founder Membership. That’s probably the best place to start. People can also reach out to me on LinkedIn—I think I’m listed as Alexander Theuma on LinkedIn, but it might be Alex Theuma; I can't remember at the moment. I'm generally pretty active and responsive there, less so on other platforms. We have SaaS USA coming up from May 13th to 15th in Austin, and it’s going to be a great event. Austin itself, with its focus on customer experience, played a big role in our choice.
We chose Austin after talking to our customers, visiting the city, and realizing what a fun and valuable addition it would bring to the conference. The same goes for Dublin; it's a fantastic setting for our October conference. This is also why I probably wouldn’t ever host a conference in London—don't quote me on that—because, in my experience, it’s hard to create an intimate conference atmosphere there. London is too big, and people often leave the event and get lost in the city. We need to be intentional about creating that organized serendipity. So yeah, a bit of insight into why we chose Austin and Dublin!
0:34:51 - Alex Shevelenko
Amazing. Well, I hope everyone gets to experience the SaaS world, and for those looking to run their own event programs, I think there's a lot they can learn from you and the way you’ve intentionally created incredible events for your community. So, Alex, thank you again for joining us, sharing your expertise, and being a beacon in the SaaS community—for sponsors, founders, and investors alike. Keep up the great work!
0:35:24 - Alex Theuma
Thanks! It’s easy to do when you've found something you love, right? It never feels like a day's work. We’ll keep at it. Thank you!