See show notes for this episode: S 02 | Ep 14 From Armani to Regenerative Cotton: Federico Marchetti’s Vision for Responsible Fashion.
0:00:02 - Alex Shevelenko
Welcome to Experience-focused Leaders. Today is arguably the sexiest episode we’ll ever have or have had, because I’m delighted to host Federico Marchetti. He is the creator of Yoox Net-a-Porter, which was a listed company and sold for $6 billion. He is on the board of Giorgio Armani, and he most recently published a book that should be required reading for anyone interested in innovation: The Geek of Chic. Federico, welcome to the podcast.
0:00:58 - Federico Marchetti
Thank you, Alex. I’m so excited to be here with you.
0:01:01 - Alex Shevelenko
Well, I was trying to figure out all the things I could include in this introduction. It’s a short condensation: you’re a business advisor to King Charles, a participant in many of his initiatives, and you’ve created a super interesting post-exit career for yourself. We’ll come back to that in the second part of the conversation about repurposing yourself. But let’s start at the beginning. You’re the man who brought together two things that nobody in Silicon Valley could ever imagine combining: luxury fashion and technology. I still remember my first internship at Microsoft as an undergrad, where people were wearing probably the least fashionable shorts and socks ever possible. So, you made it happen. Tell us the backstory and the genesis of founding Yoox.
0:02:05 - Federico Marchetti
Yeah, it’s a good question, and I don’t know where to start. The New York Times called me “the man who put fashion on the net,” so I was the first to actually combine luxury fashion with the internet. It was in 1999, before the millennium.
0:02:31 - Alex Shevelenko
So you probably remember the end of ’99, the end-of-the-world vibe. Jeff Bezos was focusing on books, and you were basically the Italian Jeff Bezos, focusing on luxury. Right?
0:02:45 - Federico Marchetti
Yeah, around the same time—maybe a year or two later. Well, what do you expect from an Italian, if not fashion? It can only be fashion, food, or furniture—the three F’s. I decided that fashion was probably the most appealing field in which to spend the next 20 years, working like hell, as any entrepreneur, CEO, and chairman of your own company would.
What made me think of combining the internet and fashion? For context, in 1999—some of the audience may be very young—there was no Facebook, no Instagram, no Wikipedia, no 5G, 4G, 3G, 2G… nothing. Now everyone shops for fashion online, but in 2000, as you mentioned, you could buy some books from Amazon—and that’s it. No fashion at all.
The reason I came up with this idea is because I was returning from Columbia Business School, where I had studied for a year and a half. I came back to Milan—not by choice, to be honest—because American companies wouldn’t hire me.
0:04:17 - Alex Shevelenko
That was their loss.
0:04:20 - Federico Marchetti
I wanted badly to work in entertainment, from Disney to Paramount, but I didn’t have a visa or a green card. It’s very difficult for an Italian to be hired by an American company. So I went back to Milan and worked for a consulting firm called Bain, which was a terrible mistake in the sense that I really didn’t enjoy it. I wanted to work on retail or entertainment projects—my passion is the customer—but they put me on projects far from that.
0:05:12 - Alex Shevelenko
You mean PowerPoint was not fashionable? Excel? No, it didn’t do it for you?
0:05:20 - Federico Marchetti
Exactly. That’s probably why I hate PowerPoint so much now—I couldn’t stand it. Excel, I think, is better than PowerPoint; at least it’s smarter. Anyway, it was November 1999. I was desperate to be in Milan because I wanted to stay in New York, desperate to work at Bain because I wanted to work at Disney or in entertainment or retail. So I said, “Okay, Federico, now it’s time to come up with your own project.” You can’t wake up every morning with that kind of desperation.
I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I come from a very humble family, which is why the subtitle of The Geek of Chic is An American Dream, Italian Style. My father was a warehouse manager, my mother a call center operator, and we’re from a small province below Venice called Ravenna. Fifteen hundred years ago, Ravenna was the capital of the Western Roman Empire.
0:06:49 - Alex Shevelenko
We should come back later to when you brought it back to the map—when you brought King Charles to your hometown.
0:06:54 - Federico Marchetti
Yeah, you’re right. At the beginning of the book, I talk about Ravenna, about escaping from a bipolar father—so, a very difficult childhood—and leaving Ravenna when I was 18 or 19. The end of the book is going back to Ravenna with King Charles, showing him the beautiful mosaics of my city. So it’s very circular, and in a way, it’s kind of magical. But anyway, back to your question.
I came up with the idea of combining fashion with the internet. Being Italian is definitely a competitive advantage—not just because we dress well, but because of proximity: proximity in terms of geography, culture, and understanding beauty, since we are surrounded by it. It would have been much more difficult for someone who met Mr. Armani, Mr. Valentino, or Mr. Weber and didn’t understand exactly how to speak, what to say, or even what to wear. Even though my practice has never been to wear the same brand as the person I was meeting. If I was meeting Armani, I was not wearing Armani; if I was meeting Gucci, I was not wearing Gucci. Wearing the same brand can make you look like a sycophant, and I didn’t want that.
I always tried to position myself equally in negotiations. Even with Alibaba and its CEO, I tried to put myself at the same level as Jeff Bezos. I declined his offer to buy my company. My entrepreneurial spirit made me feel I shouldn’t be inferior to anyone. And that attitude worked in negotiations—it gave me confidence, because I didn’t feel like I was losing anything. Sometimes it was tough, but it worked.
So I came up with the plan, and in January 2000, I started looking for funding. At that time, there was only one venture capitalist in Italy.
0:09:19 - Alex Shevelenko
In Italy?
0:09:19 - Federico Marchetti
Yes, only one. The choice wasn’t difficult, but he was a great man—a true gentleman—from Olivetti. Olivetti was a company in Italy that actually inspired Steve Jobs to create Apple. Very few people know that before starting Apple, Steve Jobs came to Italy and wanted to hire the architect responsible for Olivetti’s typewriters. Olivetti’s owner had the idea to merge form and function, making typewriters beautiful. They hired many famous designers and architects to make the typewriters—and later personal computers—beautiful. That inspired Steve Jobs to make Apple products aesthetically pleasing, unlike Microsoft.
0:10:22 - Alex Shevelenko
That’s really interesting. Let’s come back to that, because the modern technology industry now also focuses on craftsmanship. Jobs was an exception at the time, but today crafting beautiful customer experiences is a stated goal for many companies. Maybe Italy has an advantage here—being surrounded by beauty helps in creating delightful experiences. Anyone who has traveled to Italy knows that.
0:11:12 - Federico Marchetti
Exactly. Italy is nothing special in terms of technology or innovation. My company was the only tech unicorn in Italian history—which is a shame. In technology, we are far behind America. Innovation is part of the American dream.
I tried to be as innovative as an American e-commerce entrepreneur in 2000. But on the creativity, emotion, beauty, and design side, Italy has an edge. People from Italy work in California for American companies, bringing this sensibility with them. I was born in Ravenna and surrounded by beautiful mosaics, even in a humble, average-class family. I lived and breathed beauty from a young age, and that gave me an advantage.
0:12:56 - Alex Shevelenko
Going back to the founding story: obviously, great success—publicly listed, acquired your largest competitor. What advice would you give your younger self, leaving Bain and about to start your company?
0:13:38 - Federico Marchetti
When I was 29, starting my company, I made so many mistakes—but probably more mistakes came later, when the company grew bigger. At 29, I was very brave. I didn’t have a backup plan when I resigned from Bain—I burned the boats.
0:14:11 - Alex Shevelenko
Did you have family or dependents at the time?
0:14:17 - Federico Marchetti
No, I was single. I really enjoyed my Columbia Business School years in New York as a single man.
0:14:33 - Alex Shevelenko
A single Italian in New York must have been…
0:14:43 - Federico Marchetti
Yes. I was brave enough to go ahead and burn the boats, with a strong vision. I got my first funding on March 21, 2000—the spring equinox: $1.5 million for 33%. One month later, the e-commerce bubble collapsed—April–May 2000. The Nasdaq dropped massively, and no one was funding internet entrepreneurs for a couple of years.
I was lucky with timing and never worried, because I had a strong vision that the internet and fashion would converge. Even crises like the dot-com bubble, 9/11, or COVID didn’t shake my belief.
Later, when I bought Net-a-Porter—my British competitor—we were competing closely. My company was more profitable; they were losing money. I tried to buy it for five years. The first attempt failed two days before signing. The second attempt, two years later, also failed at the last moment. I asked myself, “Shall I try a third time?” In English, they say “third time lucky.” In Italy, they say if you fail twice, you’ll fail a third time. But in this case, the third time worked.
0:17:55 - Alex Shevelenko
You weren’t Italian. You were probably more American than that case, right?
0:18:01 - Federico Marchetti
Yes, it was third time lucky. It was very controversial because the founder didn’t want to sell. She had already sold it to Richemont in 2010, and then again in 2015 with a carried interest during the merger. She was probably not happy—she wanted to sell the company three times. Unfortunately, now she’s in the news for a different story, which isn’t great.
It was very controversial because I had all the British press against me. Obviously, an Italian buying a British company wasn’t easy. Believe me, it was not easy. And that’s when I started making big mistakes.
The first mistake I made was after the merger. I tried to be very nice, with white gloves, with all the management of Net-a-Porter, giving everyone a second chance to show what they wanted to achieve. But I knew most of them just wanted to boycott the merger and leak information to journalists. I wasted so much time. I should have fired half the management team immediately.
0:19:35 - Alex Shevelenko
And you didn’t do it. You were trying to be a polite British gentleman, right?
0:19:45 - Federico Marchetti
Yes, I tried to be polite. I wore nice Burberry suits, trying to fit in. It was such a big mistake. I wasted two years, and they really made my life hell—50% of the management team. I tried to convince myself that everyone deserved a second chance.
So the first big lesson: if you do a merger or buy a company, immediately figure out who is with you and who isn’t, and get rid of the people who are against you. I didn’t do that—first big mistake.
The second big mistake was the replatforming in terms of technology. Both Yoox and Net-a-Porter were growing fast. Yoox had better technology; Net-a-Porter did not. Before I bought them, they had a downtime of 72 hours during Cyber Monday—absolutely not acceptable. I had to strategize a replatforming. But instead of just moving Net-a-Porter to the new technology, I decided to invent a third platform for both of them. It was a bloodbath. I was probably thinking too long-term as an entrepreneur—I like to think five or ten years ahead—but I should have focused more on the medium term: two or three years, what is realistically going to happen?
So these were two big mistakes. Don’t oversimplify technology—it can be your Achilles’ heel, as it was for me.
0:21:42 - Alex Shevelenko
So, if you could advise someone starting out in an industry where innovation is required—but they haven’t lived through all the cycles you have, they haven’t managed innovation repeatedly—what would you say? Maybe they had one great idea and succeeded, but never had a chance to reinvent themselves. In fashion, innovation is almost constant—trends and business innovation happening at the same time. How would you advise people to bring the beauty of innovation into everyday management and running their companies?
0:23:01 - Federico Marchetti
I believe in creativity—by that, I mean thinking differently. It doesn’t necessarily mean creating something beautiful; it means looking at things in a different way, which is the main ingredient of innovation. To innovate, you need to think differently and ideally be the first, or at least the second, to do something. That requires creativity: developing ideas, business models, new markets, and new features for customers. Always aim to be first and unique.
I tried not to copy anyone. For example, I don’t understand why fashion influencers represent five brands. As a brand, I don’t want someone advertising for me one day and for a competitor the next. I always tried to create something new, proprietary, and unique.
It’s important not to copy others. Sometimes you fail, sometimes you exaggerate, sometimes experiments don’t work—but if you keep the customer central, everything you innovate matters. Technology should serve the customer, not the R&D team’s curiosity. Everything should be channeled to the customer to give an innovative and creative experience. Customer is king. It’s funny: after selling my company for almost $6 billion, I ended up working with two kings.
0:25:53 - Alex Shevelenko
Oh, two kings? I knew one—tell me about the other.
0:25:59 - Federico Marchetti
One is the King of England. I spend a lot of time with him as his consigliere, sitting on many boards, including his foundation and Highgrove Gardens. I chair the fashion task force for sustainable marketing—he asks me for more every year. The second “king” was Mr. Armani, the king of fashion.
So, after selling my company, I worked with the King of England and the king of fashion. Unfortunately, Mr. Armani passed away at the beginning of September.
0:26:49 - Alex Shevelenko
Yes, I’m sorry for your loss. I also wanted to note for our audience that he wrote the foreword to your book.
0:27:01 - Federico Marchetti
Yes.
0:27:02 - Alex Shevelenko
And so probably the last written words from Mr. Armani that have ever been published.
0:27:12 - Federico Marchetti
Not only the last words, but also the only ones, because he never wrote a foreword for anyone in his life. I’ve known him for 30 years and have been on his board for many years, so I went through many personal and professional experiences with him. It was a big loss and a very emotional moment. Now, I’m still on his board and will try to help management continue an amazing story, because the Giorgio Armani story is truly remarkable.
So, I’ve been working between two “kings” for the last five years. I started in 2018, after selling my company, so it’s been an amazing experience. When I sold the company, I was 49, probably too early to retire and go fishing or throw my cell phone into Lake Como, as beautiful as it is.
Now I’m in my New York apartment, and at 49 I asked myself: “Federico, what are you going to do for your second life?” I decided I didn’t want to become CEO of a big fashion brand.
I had only two offers, one from a listed company and one private, and I declined them. I didn’t want to be a manager—I’m an entrepreneur. I don’t like being told what to do by a family or another entrepreneur. I’ve been too lucky with Yoox Net-a-Porter, with the exit, and with timing. Probably now it would be worth peanuts. Many fashion e-commerce companies are struggling or have gone bankrupt because they weren’t creative enough and didn’t differentiate themselves. That’s the real story, but it’s a different chapter.
I’ve always been passionate about sustainability. Yoox started by selling end-of-season clothes, giving fashion a second life. I was ahead of the curve in supporting sustainability in the fashion industry back in 2008. I wanted to help the planet through innovation, expertise, and an innovative mindset, because I believe only technology and innovation can save the planet.
If we keep doing the same things, nothing will change, as Albert Einstein suggested a long time ago. Innovation is the only thing that can make a difference for sustainability, the environment, and climate change. Sustainability became my passion: giving back my luck and working not for profit but for the next generation and the planet.
Meanwhile, I met the then Prince of Wales—now King Charles III. Not everyone knows that King Charles is a true pioneer of sustainability. His first speech on the environment and climate change was in February 1970.
0:32:06 - Alex Shevelenko
I was just one year old. That’s decades before Greta Thunberg, with a very different approach.
0:32:20 - Federico Marchetti
Exactly. Greta is a young protester, which is understandable for her generation, while the King is trying to influence the private sector through initiatives like the Sustainable Markets Initiative. After I created a successful project for him, called Modern Artisan, he asked me to chair the fashion task force of the Sustainable Markets Initiative. I put together members, but not too many, because I wanted action. I’m a doer, not a talker.
0:33:24 - Alex Shevelenko
It was an action tank rather than a think tank?
0:33:28 - Federico Marchetti
Exactly. I gathered brands I had worked with for 20 years through Yoox Net-a-Porter, from Prada to Armani, Burberry to Chloé, etc.
0:33:42 - Alex Shevelenko
It must take a lot of diplomacy to bring everyone together.
0:33:48 - Federico Marchetti
Yes, it helps to be perceived as neutral. I’ve always been the “Switzerland of fashion,” both at Yoox and Net-a-Porter. I implemented a couple of visions, including the digital passport, which I introduced almost four or five years ago. Now all members have implemented it in their stores.
0:34:30 - Alex Shevelenko
For our audience, can you explain what it is? It’s very real and useful for everyone.
0:34:43 - Federico Marchetti
Many brands, especially in fast fashion, still don’t do it—it’s difficult for them. The digital passport provides information for each item—a bag, shoes, a dress, or a suit—via QR code, blockchain, or NFC. The technology doesn’t matter; the important part is the information: materials used, social conditions of workers, how to resell, repair, or recycle the item.
It gives the product longevity and empowers customers to make responsible choices. The problem is that younger generations want to buy sustainable fashion, but they don’t always know if it truly is.
0:35:50 - Alex Shevelenko
Exactly. They don’t read ESG reports, and even if they do, they often don’t fully understand them.
0:35:57 - Federico Marchetti
So, basically, I now close the information gap between customers and brands. As a customer, you go to a shop, place your smartphone near the QR code, and then you know everything about that item. For example—let’s take Armani, not just because I’m on the board, but because they were the fastest to implement both of my visions: one was the digital passport, and the second is regenerative agriculture, like regenerative materials and organic cotton.
I convinced the Armani management team, and Mr. Armani, of course, to start a big project in southern Italy, bringing cotton production back to Puglia, which had been replaced by polyester six years earlier. They agreed to invest, and we started this regenerative agriculture experiment around cotton, which is the most used material in Armani’s supply chain. For Brunello Cucinelli, part of my task force, we chose cashmere, and he is doing a similar initiative in the Himalayas.
0:37:37 - Alex Shevelenko
That was the “Switzerland” move—bringing everyone together while letting them innovate in their own domain. I love it.
0:37:44 - Federico Marchetti
Exactly. Two years ago, I came up with the idea of regenerative cotton for Armani. Soon, in flagship stores around the world, customers will find the iconic Giorgio Armani blue T-shirt, the same one he wears after each show, now made of organic, regenerative cotton from Puglia. Through the QR code and the digital passport, customers can even see the cotton fields where the material comes from. It’s an experience; it’s part of a story. In the end, it’s also entertainment—you are what you wear.
0:38:50 - Alex Shevelenko
And now you know who you are when you make these choices.
0:38:54 - Federico Marchetti
Exactly. We build regenerative systems.
0:38:57 - Alex Shevelenko
At RELAYTO, we’ve actually taken inspiration from this. I love it. Building on that point—if I had to summarize it—you are the innovation go-to leader for two kings, not just one. They learn from you, and you speak with respect about both. What did you learn from them that you bring into your life, which others who haven’t worked with them could also incorporate? What makes them such unique human beings?
0:39:52 - Federico Marchetti
My friend Brunello Cucinelli, the founder of the cashmere brand you may know, likes to give names to things. He’s very philosophical and often talks about philosophy. On a trip together, he told me: “Federico, you should call yourself a philanthropic industrialist, because you do philanthropy through business. You help companies become more sustainable and improve their supply chains—not for your own profit, but for the benefit of others.”
I get a lot of satisfaction from this work, knowing that it’s important for the planet and the next generation. It’s a different kind of pleasure from making money for a company or personal gain. Frankly, in my second life, I’m much happier than in my first, probably because I’m already financially comfortable. I own eight houses around the world, so I’m not striving the way many people do. Helping others—companies and entrepreneurs—feels incredible.
Regarding what I learned from the two kings, from Mr. Armani specifically: he was probably the only one in the fashion industry who successfully combined both business and creative sides. Usually, in fashion brands, the CEO and the creative director are separate, and most of the time, either the CEO or the creative director changes.
0:42:32 - Alex Shevelenko
So they’re always in conflict. They’re in conflict all the time.
0:42:35 - Federico Marchetti
Yes, they’re in conflict all the time—or, I mean, only sometimes the combination is perfect, and it lasts a long time, but usually it doesn’t. It doesn’t because maybe the creative director has too much ego, or the CEO doesn’t understand creativity and doesn’t know how to communicate with a creative person. Mr. Armani was very lucky because he had both left-brain and right-brain thinking in the same person. He was a visionary entrepreneur, CEO, chairman, and sole shareholder of his company, and at the same time, he designed the collections and ensured that every single detail—from Armani hotels to Armani furniture, even Armani flowers—was exactly how he wanted to position the brand.
What I learned from him is how to match these aspects. Obviously, I never design a collection myself, I’m not a designer, but in my company, Yoox Net-a-Porter, I tried to instill creativity—through my own creativity and through the creativity of collaborators and contributors. I always tried to match creativity because it makes the company unique. I think most e-commerce players today lack creativity and uniqueness. They all look the same. If they all sell Prada products, the customer will naturally go for the one that offers a discount, which is a very short-term perspective for the company.
He’s passionate about the environment and works hard to get the private sector to accelerate the sustainability path. What I learned most from him? We exchanged a lot of handwritten letters, which is beautiful—they still exist. I have some of them at home, answers from the King himself, beautifully written from Buckingham Palace with the red seal.
0:45:14 - Alex Shevelenko
How does he know which of your homes to send it to?
0:45:17 - Federico Marchetti
He only sends them to Milan, and sometimes also to Lake Como, because he calls me his “Italian secret weapon.” He says that because I’m a doer. I learned from him how much great people need doers around them—they love action. The King loves action more than anyone else. People think nobles only do leisure activities like shooting foxes, but that’s not true. They love action, maybe even more than entrepreneurs, because they are rarely surrounded by action-oriented people. That’s what I learned: it’s important to bring action to even the biggest, most powerful people.
0:46:23 - Alex Shevelenko
What would be your advice for someone who wants to be a person of action throughout their life? Let’s say they’re entrepreneurial in nature, but maybe they won’t have a magnificent exit and are instead pursuing their “second mountain.” What can they do right now? And when you meet people who’ve inspired you over your career, what were they doing to lead such engaging lives—non-profit, for-profit, creative?
0:47:18 - Federico Marchetti
My advice is super simple—maybe too simple—but try to be yourself. The world is full of yes-men who try to please, who aren’t brave enough to make decisions or take risks. They take the easy route or try to find shortcuts. What works best is to be yourself, to be brave, to take risks, and to be courageous.
I wrote this book not to make money—you don’t make money from books unless you’re a Harry Potter author—but to give courage to the next generation. The bottom line of the book is: if I made it, you can too. I worked with kings and built a company worth billions, but I came from a very humble family in a very small town in Italy. I did technology and innovation, even though I wasn’t a programmer or a fashion specialist. I knew what customers wanted, but I didn’t know how to program, and I wasn’t in fashion.
And I wasn’t even good in PowerPoint, which probably saved me a lot of time! My parents didn’t understand what I was doing—my mother is anti-technology, she doesn’t even know how to send an SMS. So if I made it coming from that background, anyone can. I took a lot of risks, and for most of them, I was lucky. As the Latins say: Fortuna favors the brave. That’s what my book is about—being brave, taking risks, and staying true to yourself. Don’t change your DNA, because then you’ll never succeed.
0:50:02 - Alex Shevelenko
What a brilliant way to wrap up. I encourage everybody not to take a small risk, but a very obvious action: go buy the book. Let’s see the title again.
0:50:12 - Federico Marchetti
Here it is: The Geek of Chicken. It went live in the U.S. just two days ago, on September 9th. American Dream, Italian Style.
0:50:32 - Alex Shevelenko
I learned a ton, and I hope everyone else will as well. Thank you so much, Federico, for sharing your insights and the wisdom of the great people you’ve worked with. You’ve shown how technology, fashion, creativity, and sustainability can all come together in one lifetime. What a great story—thank you.
0:50:51 - Federico Marchetti
Thank you so much. It was my pleasure to be here.