Donna Griffit is a world-renowned corporate storyteller and pitch alchemist. She has worked with over a thousand startups, Fortune 500 companies, and leading investors across 30 countries. She's helped them raise over a billion dollars by transforming complex ideas into clear and compelling narratives that win funding, customers, and markets. She is the author of Sticking to My Story: The Alchemy of Storytelling for Startups.
Key Takeaways
(0:00 - 07:00) Talent in Cooking and Plating
(07:00 - 17:14) Avoidable Storytelling Mistakes and Solutions
(17:14 - 27:32) Different Layers of Storytelling Trends
(27:32 - 41:11) Cultural Differences and Censorship Perception
(47:23 - 1:04:18) Transforming Annual Reports Into Immersive Experiences
(1:04:18 - 1:14:40) Revolutionizing Content Consumption Through Visualization
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1. Polishing Brilliant Ideas into Stories People Remember
Donna has worked with thousands of startups and major corporations around the world, helping them turn complicated ideas into clear and engaging stories that attract investors, customers, and supporters.
They discuss why even the smartest founders struggle to explain their ideas in a way others can understand. Donna says brilliant concepts often get buried under too much information, technical detail, or unclear messaging. Her job isn’t to invent something new, but to uncover the value that’s already there — like polishing a rough diamond until it shines.
Donna shares a powerful analogy: founders often bring their ideas like raw ingredients in a kitchen — great elements, but messy and unfinished. Storytelling is the process of cooking them into a beautiful final dish people truly enjoy and understand.
Alex connects this to RELAYTO, describing how great content needs both a strong story and a compelling way to present it so people pay attention and take action.
They bring all these raw ingredients that are discombobulated — dessert mixed with dinner, appetizers all over the place. When we separate it out and cook it into a meal, adding that magic ingredient — for cooking, it’s love, and for writing pitches, it’s storytelling — the experience is completely different. Same ingredients, completely different experience. (Donna Griffit)
2. Why Great Ideas Fail Without Great Presentation
Alex Shevelenko and Donna Griffit talk about why both content and design matter when telling a story or presenting a pitch. Donna explains that even if an idea is brilliant, people may ignore it if it looks messy or confusing on the surface. She compares it to food: a delicious dish won’t impress anyone if it’s served in an unappealing way.
They discuss a famous Steve Jobs quote about building a beautiful cake and then ruining it with terrible frosting — meaning that even great content can be ruined by poor presentation. Donna points out that design isn’t about decoration; it’s about supporting and elevating the message so that people immediately understand its value.
Donna also explains how audiences process information. When a slide is filled with text, people start reading and stop listening, which means the speaker’s message gets lost. Instead, visuals should guide the story, not fight with it.
Alex shares his own early experiences: he believed that being smart and having strong ideas was enough, but he later realized that ideas only work when people can absorb them, connect to them, and feel ownership. That realization helped inspire the creation of RELAYTO — a platform built to help people present ideas in a way that actually resonates.
Design isn’t just making it look pretty or decorating it with ribbons; it’s about elevating the message. Because everything visual on a slide, we ascribe meaning to.
(Donna Griffit)
3. The Tragedy of Untold Stories
In this section of the episode, Alex Shevelenko and Donna Griffit talk about why powerful storytelling is essential for any idea, product, or organization to succeed. Donna shares a quote from Stewart Butterfield, the founder of Slack, who said that without the ability to convince people through storytelling, even the best products won’t matter. She uses humor to explain that Silicon Valley is full of “great ideas in the graveyard” that failed simply because nobody understood or cared about them.
Alex continues by pointing out that this problem isn’t just about startups. Even major global institutions produce huge amounts of content that nobody reads or acts on. If information isn’t communicated clearly or meaningfully, it becomes useless — even tragic — no matter how important it is.
Donna then discusses common mistakes people make when pitching or presenting:
• They skip the story and jump straight to the solution
• They leave out personal motivation or emotional connection
• They overload people with numbers instead of experiences
She explains that investors and partners don’t remember financial metrics; they remember real human stories — like someone building a company because they watched a family member struggle with illness. These stories build trust and make people care.
Donna tells a true example: a company pitching to Whole Foods didn’t want to spend time telling the emotional story behind their product, even though it was the most compelling part. She calls it a missed opportunity — like having a treasure chest of gold and refusing to open it.
Stories stick. You don’t walk away remembering CAC, LTV, or projected revenues for 2026. Nobody’s going to remember that. They’ll refer back later — but they will remember the story of someone whose father was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in his 50s, nothing helped, so he set out to find a solution, discovered a bigger problem, and built a multi-billion-dollar company. (Donna Griffit)
4. How to Build a Story That Investors Remember
Alex Shevelenko and Donna Griffit talk about the different types of stories founders and leaders can use when presenting their ideas — and why the structure of a story matters just as much as the content.
Donna explains that storytelling isn’t just one thing. There are multiple layers:
• The origin story — why the idea started and what inspired the founder
• A story about the current world — something happening right now that everyone can recognize, such as the rise of AI-powered scams or deepfakes
• Stories drawn from culture — things trending in public conversation, even pop culture moments like Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce, which can connect to audiences in surprising ways
• The structural story — organizing information like acts in a play so it flows logically and keeps attention
She shares that great storytelling follows a framework similar to theatre or film: Act One, Act Two, Act Three. This structure helps guide the audience through what they need to know in the right order, answering their questions as they arise. It’s used everywhere — from ancient Greek tragedies to modern Netflix series — because it works.
However, Donna also emphasizes that while structure is important, originality still matters. The goal is to use a familiar framework while letting something unique shine through.
Alex then talks about founders who approach investor meetings thinking they have to impress or fit a mold. He asks an important question: When should you interrupt expectations instead of following them? In other words, where is the right moment to break the pattern so your story stands out?
When I give you this framework, it frees you, because it removes the guesswork about the order of things. And it’s all based on investor questions or audience questions. That’s the framework: Are you answering your audience’s questions in the right order? Very important. (Donna Griffit)
5. How to Break the Pattern and Tell a Story That Truly Stands Out
Alex begins by pointing out that many founders feel pressured to impress investors and fit a certain model. They think they have to say the right words and behave the right way. He asks: When should you break the expectations and do something different? Where is the right moment to interrupt the pattern?
Donna explains that patterns are useful because they help the brain process information. A clear structure makes a pitch easier to follow. But within that structure, there are moments where founders can shine and stand out.
She suggests a few ways to do that:
• Tell a powerful origin story — nobody else has your personal motivations or journey
• Share a surprising insight or fact — something investors didn’t know about your market or the opportunity
• Show true differentiation — not by attacking competitors, but by explaining what makes you meaningfully different
• Use elements of surprise — trends, shifts in behavior, upcoming regulations, or timely examples that change the conversation
Donna compares this to a house: the structure is the framework, but what people notice are the walls, colors, and furniture — the things that create personality. A pitch should feel the same: organized but alive.
Then Alex shifts to discussing AI fatigue. He says that everyone is claiming to have AI, and simply saying “we use AI” is no longer impressive. He asks how companies can tell a convincing and concrete AI story today.
Donna explains that every founder now needs a real AI strategy — what she calls an AI moat — something that proves why their AI approach is defensible, valuable, and difficult to copy. She shares that when she wrote her book, AI was just emerging, and since then it has transformed the expectations for storytelling. It’s not about mentioning AI — it’s about showing exactly how it’s used and why it matters in real life.
She gives the example of health tech, where AI can meaningfully improve patient care and decision-making. These kinds of real, practical examples make the story powerful.
Let’s make a distinction between patterns and the human behind the startup — who you are as a founder. Patterns are important because that’s the way our brain takes in information. It’s what investors expect, and it’s good — we can only deal with chunks of information. I write about the principle of chunking. That’s why it’s four chunks, four acts, in your investor deck. But again, that’s the framework. I am thrilled when we can break through the patterns.
There are a few different things. First of all: your origin story, because that’s your own unique thing. Nobody can match that. (Donna Griffit)
6. Breaking the Pattern: How to Tell a Standout Story in the AI Era
Donna explains that having a clear AI story is essential today. Simply saying you use AI is no longer enough — everyone says that. What matters is being able to explain how you use AI in a meaningful, unique way, and why it will help you stay strong over time. She calls this an AI moat — something about your approach that protects your business and sets you apart.
Donna also shares that she had to rewrite the last chapter of her book after ChatGPT was released, because the world of AI changed so quickly. Now she encourages founders to show real examples of how AI creates value and makes a difference, especially in fields like healthcare where AI can improve lives.
Alex and Donna then discuss what matters beyond the pitch deck. With tools generating good-looking slides easily, human connection becomes even more important. Real conversations — whether in person or on Zoom — create trust and help founders communicate their energy, passion, and presence. Donna says physical presence is the strongest, but Zoom can work well if you engage fully. Voice and body language matter more than many people realize.
Physical presence always wins. When you can have a real conversation — whether on Zoom or in person — it’s completely different. (Donna Griffit)
7. The Lost Art of Small Talk — and Why It Matters More Than Ever
Donna shares that at Stanford Graduate School of Business, the number-one reason students sign up for coaching is not pitching skills or public speaking, but learning how to make authentic small talk. Many students struggle to start and continue simple conversations at events or networking situations. They often freeze right after “How are you?” or “Where are you from?”
Donna explains why:
• Much of their college experience happened online during COVID.
• The early years of their careers were remote or hybrid.
• They grew up with smartphones instead of in-person interactions.
• Everyone now worries about saying the wrong thing or offending someone.
Because of this, many people have lost natural conversational instincts and feel pressure to filter every sentence, which blocks genuine connection.
Her advice: get curious. Ask questions that go beyond small talk and focus on shared experiences, reactions, and personal thoughts. Authentic conversation grows when people listen, follow threads, and let dialogue bounce back and forth like ping-pong.
Alex adds that showing vulnerability — sharing something personal or imperfect — can open the door for others to do the same. They compare different cultural communication styles, from British politeness to French debate culture, and note how each shapes conversation.
My number one piece of advice to them is: get super curious about who you’re speaking to. Ask questions that aren’t just about the weather. You all at GSB right now have at least 10 shared experiences from the past week alone: you all took midterms, you all had Section Olympics, you all went to View From the Top with the head of Sequoia — you all did these things. (Donna Griffit)
8. Dating, Pitching, and the Power of Curiosity
Donna begins by joking about how complicated modern online dating apps are. Alex expands on that idea, saying we now live in a world where both dating and startup fundraising feel like high-volume, impersonal transactions. People swipe through thousands of profiles without getting curious about real connections. Founders blast thousands of automated emails to investors. Companies send mass sales outreach with no personalization. The result: lots of noise and very little meaningful engagement.
Alex asks how people can break free of this pattern and build real relationships, especially with investors.
Donna explains that pitching is very similar to dating:
The first meeting isn’t the moment to overshare everything.
You shouldn’t dump every detail, spreadsheet, and prediction at once.
Your job is to engage, listen, and create a thoughtful back-and-forth — not overwhelm.
Instead of treating investors like transactions, founders should focus on curiosity, pacing, and empathy. The best storytelling comes when you write and speak from your audience’s perspective, not your own. She encourages founders to think ahead about the questions they’ll likely face, including ones they fear, so they don’t freeze in the moment.
The biggest shift Donna suggests: stop trying to prove how smart you are. Instead, learn what matters to the other person and build the story around them — just like in real conversations or on a first date.
Alex reflects that he started the podcast and his work at RELAYTO because he once made the same mistake — focusing too much on his ideas and not enough on how people would receive them. Donna then offers to apply her storytelling framework to RELAYTO live on the podcast, and they share a light moment about combining Russian caviar with French croissants.
If you think of the first investor meeting like a first date — and I hope that on your first date you’re not talking about your entire dating history, when you’d like to be married, or how many kids you want to have, and giving an insurance policy on why someone should marry you — you’re not going to see that person again. You might even be sued for damages! (Donna Griffit)
9. From Clippy to AI Storytelling: How RELAYTO Was Born
Donna sets the stage by explaining her signature technique called a “pitch back”: she listens to someone’s idea and then immediately retells their story in a clearer, stronger way. Without any preparation, she challenges Alex to share the human story behind RELAYTO.
Alex walks through his journey, starting from his first internship at Microsoft, when tools like Word, Excel, and PowerPoint helped everyday people create things without needing technical skills. He remembers how exciting it felt to help democratize communication — especially as someone who had just arrived in the U.S. from the Soviet Union.
But one problem kept bothering him for years: after teams spent countless hours building ideas, everything still ended up locked inside static PDFs. Even as software and websites evolved, the PDF remained stuck in time.
This frustration, combined with experience at companies like Salesforce and SuccessFactors, eventually led to the move from improving PowerPoints to transforming them into interactive digital experiences — a path that became RELAYTO AI. Now, anyone can take existing content and instantly turn it into:
An interactive website, instead of a frozen document
A Netflix-style portal that brings together video, text, and slides into one connected story
At its heart, Alex explains, RELAYTO is driven by the belief that ideas deserve a stage where they can truly live, not collect dust inside a file no one opens.
Nothing keeps you more alert than a real conversation. I do these a lot, by the way — online communities will sign up for a pitch back, they have two or three minutes to pitch, and then I tell their story. (Donna Griffit)
10. Why RELAYTO Is Reimagining the PDF — Without Replacing It
Donna asks Alex to define RELAYTO in simple terms, since it can feel like many things at once: a website, a landing page, a content portal, or something entirely new. Alex explains that it’s easiest to show RELAYTO rather than describe it. In short, the platform takes a static document — like a PDF or PowerPoint — and turns it into an interactive web experience automatically. No design work required.
They discuss how this technology is especially valuable for organizations in highly regulated fields like finance, insurance, healthcare, and government. These teams spend months crafting content, getting approvals, and checking compliance. They don’t want AI rewriting their message — but they do want their material to be easier to read, more visual, and designed for screens instead of print.
Alex describes this approach as “regenerative AI”— improving content presentation without changing meaning, and staying within approved guardrails. Unlike traditional PDFs, experiences made in RELAYTO can provide analytics, showing how audiences actually interact with content.
The conversation also touches on the history: Alex reflects back to his time at Microsoft, when PDFs began taking over as the universal, uneditable format. Microsoft lost visibility into how people were consuming content, and the communication “last mile” became a black box. RELAYTO aims to solve that problem — not by replacing PDF technology, but by giving it a modern upgrade and turning passive documents into living, measurable digital experiences.
Donna ends by asking the big question:
If making a website is so overwhelming for most people, and tools like Wix still produce generic results, what makes RELAYTO different?
(And that’s where the discussion continues.)
Isn’t the bigger pain the daunting thought of creating a website? Wix kind of solved that, making it semi-easy to create a codeless website, but all of them look the same. So what’s different with RELAYTO? (Donna Griffit)
11. Turning Dense Documents Into Experiences People Actually Want to Read
Alex begins by explaining that most people working in B2B roles — especially product marketers and sales teams — don’t have the tools, permission, or time to build custom websites using platforms like Wix or Squarespace. Even if those tools are easy, they still require design skills and decisions many people can’t or shouldn’t have to make. And in industries like insurance or finance, content must stay tightly controlled, standardized, and compliant — which makes custom design nearly impossible.
Despite the rise of “no-code” tools, the document is still king. But long documents — like 200-page annual reports or thick pitch decks — are rarely read. They’re hard to navigate, overwhelming, and not designed for modern digital consumption.
Donna describes the vision: taking something boring and static, like an annual report, and transforming it into an immersive experience — more like a museum you can explore rather than a printed binder. An interactive format lets people jump to what matters to them, watch videos, open visuals, and explore non-linear paths instead of scrolling endlessly.
That leads to the deeper origin story. Alex recalls years of frustration as a consultant and product marketer: spending enormous time crafting content for sales teams, printing binders, polishing slides — only to watch it sit unused. The effort poured in rarely matched the impact delivered.
That became the pain point behind RELAYTO:
• For creators: They want their work to matter but don’t have the tools to build interactive digital experiences.
• For consumers: They want clarity, relevance, and engagement — not static pages.
Donna summarizes it as creating a new format for knowledge consumption that feels personal, dynamic, and engaging — almost like the experience of browsing social media.
Alex agrees: the challenge is balancing value for the creator and the audience. RELAYTO aims to solve both, especially in B2B environments where content must be powerful, compliant, and easy to interact with — without demanding extra work from the people who produce it.
There’s the pain — now I feel it. That’s the story we can all identify with. Being part of consulting, and before that at Microsoft, we were obsessed with disseminating knowledge and content — everything from PowerPoints to shiny binders that often collected dust.
Even PDFs, which have been used for decades, are rarely fully read. People skim or scan, and what’s relevant to one person may differ for another. If content could leap out to the right person at the right moment, it would be transformational. (Donna Griffit)
12. Show, Don’t Tell: Turning Complex Information Into Visual Experiences
Alex explains a real-world example: employee benefits. In many companies, benefits are one of the biggest expenses — about a quarter of total compensation — yet most employees don’t understand them. Brokers and HR teams are responsible for explaining these plans, but they don’t have the time, approval, or technical skills to build engaging websites or interactive tools. They’re stuck delivering giant PDF packets that people barely skim.
This is where RELAYTO becomes useful. It helps turn dense documents into interactive digital experiences that people can easily explore — without rewriting content or violating compliance rules. Brokers themselves discovered RELAYTO because they desperately needed a simple and visual way to guide employees through high-stakes decisions.
Donna stresses the importance of visuals when telling this story. Humans process information visually first — and understanding improves dramatically when we can see how something works. She suggests that when Alex presents RELAYTO, he should start by showing a quick example: turn a heavy report or deck into an interactive experience in 30 seconds, and let the audience feel the difference immediately.
She compares it to Steve Jobs revealing the iPad: people understood it only after seeing it. Sometimes the fastest way to explain something new is to demonstrate it.
Donna also emphasizes addressing both sides of the problem — the creator and the consumer. Creators put enormous work into their content but aren’t trained in design or web development. Consumers want clarity and relevance, not endless slides or text. RELAYTO bridges that gap by transforming existing content into something engaging instantly.
The conversation wraps with Donna sharing where listeners can find her — her website, her AI tool Deck Check, and her book — and Alex thanking her for a powerful storytelling session.
A fitting end to what Alex calls a masterclass in storytelling.
Here’s the thing: the last time our brains got a hardware upgrade was 36,000 years ago. I’m not talking about software updates; I mean the prefrontal cortex, the largest processing center of our brain, responsible for visuals. Its first function? Helping us stop killing members of our own tribe because we could recognize them. (Donna Griffit)
Check the episode's Transcript (AI-generated) HERE.