See show notes for this episode: S 02 | Ep 20 The Last Frontier is Ourselves: Leading from the Inside Out.
Alex: Welcome to the Experience-focused Leaders podcast. Today we have A.J. Thomas, the CEO of Troublemaker Lab and Founder and General Partner of Good Trouble Ventures, where she helps extraordinary founders build enduring companies through coaching, strategy, and mindful innovation. She ran global talent and human experience design groups at X—the "moonshot factory" known as Google X—and served as CXO-in-residence at A.Team. A.J., welcome to the pod.
A.J.: (Speaking French…)
Alex: Welcome. You have the sophistication of a real guest of Experience Focused Leaders.
A.J. Thomas: Oh, no.
Alex: I was looking for somebody who could do as many accents as me, and I found somebody who could exceed me by a "TEDx, Google Moonshots" level.
A.J. Thomas: You know, this is just an AI plugin. I clicked the AI plugin and it allowed me to do a different accent.
Alex: Hey, ben venuti! Welcome to our Italian thing. I hope you had a cappuccino that will melt... excellent. All right, well, this is not going to be your traditional B2B-oriented podcast. We're going to talk about creativity. And I think my sloppy introduction was not doing a disservice; let's talk about what you are at the intersection of: both Troublemaker Lab and the venture fund.
A.J. Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. I'm super excited to be "making trouble" at this point in my life. I look at the work that I do as a portfolio of impact that I'm trying to create, and I have the privilege of doing that every single day.
At the Lab, we really accelerate founders, teams, and their missions. Where you would typically think of a startup accelerator or a business accelerator, we focus really on the human in the middle of that entire ecosystem they're trying to create. Our principle revolves around looking at this triangle of a founder, executive, or leader at the center of their self, health, and wealth. We can talk a little bit more about that.
Then there is the fund. That intersection is another triad that completes it, which is the passion of funding, finding, and investing in companies at the intersection of technology, creativity, and culture. That is Good Trouble Ventures. I'm excited to work on that with a couple of my co-founders—we are an all-female fund, which is amazing. We're excited to invest in that space and then hook in the "troublemakers" within the Lab around those principles.
Alex: Beautiful. Well, look, it sounds like we have the two anchors of the conversation. Let's start with something profoundly human that's relevant to everybody. We all have a self, we all have some health, and we all have some wealth that we want to create for ourselves or for our customers.
I feel that in the venture community, the focus on compounding, scaling, and being "hyper-reactive" takes a bit away from the health and self-awareness dimensions. Or, if it does take a look at it, it’s often as a means to an end. It's like, "I'm going to measure myself up to the wazoo to live longer, but I'm still going to be the same shitty human being I have been." Or self-awareness is applied to manipulate people into doing something—like creating FOMO, which is a classic thing you encounter as an investor. What is your take on how we do this more holistically?
A.J. Thomas: I think it starts with having the courage to be curious—not only externally, but internally—about why you are leaning into something. I talk about this a lot: the "Golden Circle" we’ve all been accustomed to by our amazing friend Simon Sinek, who talks about the Why, the How, and the What. I would endeavor to also look at the Who. The "Who" is the foundation of how you get to a clearer Why, a better How, and a more precise What.
In the conversations I have, I get curious with myself around the "activating question" you want to ask people so they can be present. We talk a lot about this in our coaching work—I do a lot of work with the UC Berkeley Executive Coaching Institute as part of their faculty. We discuss the "Fourfold Way," which was coined by Dr. Angeles Arrien. Those four principles are interesting because they pull you back to who you are without forcing you to just say "emotional intelligence is great." They are very simple statements:
Show up and choose to be present. How are you showing up? What does being present actually look like? Be intentional about why you’re there.
Alex: So, the intention you bring into being. For example, our intention here is to have a wonderful conversation. We discussed it beforehand—let's have some fun and enjoy these 45 minutes of the workday. If we enjoy it, other people might experience the joy of it, too. But the main goal is simply two people connecting.
A.J. Thomas: That’s right. So we’re showing up and choosing to be present, Alex. The next level of that is:
Listen to what has heart and meaning for somebody. Sometimes in a coaching conversation, someone will say a word three or four times. If you’re not really present, you won’t hear it "leaking" out of them. Saying, "Hey, you’ve said the word 'present' four times now; what does that mean to you?" brings them back to the human factor instead of just focusing on a goal.
Tell the truth without blame or judgment. You earn the price of admission to do this by showing you are present and listening. In high-stakes conversations with clients or partners, you can say, "I’m hearing that this is really hard for you," or "This communication is not actually what you want to send." It gives us permission to lean into something different versus just thinking we "have to land this thing."
Be open to outcome, not attached to outcome. If you think about an innovative mindset, being open to outcome allows you to see "Doctor Strange-level" possibilities. You see what else is possible when you aren’t attached to a specific result.
Back to what I was saying earlier: the courage to be curious is how we really help folks make the kind of "trouble" they eventually want to make anyway.
Alex: Yeah, that’s so interesting. That last piece really resonates with me—it’s almost the sense of "exploring." As someone who came to the U.S. as a quintessential embracer of the culture, I know there is this ethos of the "pursuit of happiness" and the pursuit of big dreams. But I find that the feeling of exploring is more fun. We both have planets [on our backgrounds] here.
A.J. Thomas: You know, your planets are moving, so they’re exploring. My planets are like, "We are the hub explorers; we are here."
Alex: Well, if this is my contribution to your learning, I’ll take it! But moving and exploring versus "pursuing"... because by pursuing happiness, you are, by definition, already needy. A sense of desperation emerges for the thing you don't have. Whereas saying, "Hey, I’m curious where this journey could take us," is a very different mindset. It sounds small, and we believe in the "pursuit of happiness" as a big concept, but I think that’s the one thing the Founders didn’t quite get right. It should be the pursuit of the journey—that is ultimately what makes us happier in the end.
A.J. Thomas: Yeah, I think so. One commonality I see in the fulfilled leaders I've worked with over the years is that the exploration they engage in is not external. When we think about exploration, it usually gives us the feeling that we have to go out.
Alex: Yes.
A.J. Thomas: I think fulfillment actually comes when you explore in. Who was it—Walt Whitman—who said, "I contain multitudes"? The last frontier is not space; it is not the ocean; it is ourselves. We aren't even using a huge percentage of our brain's capacity. What does it look like when that capacity is tied to you somatically—your heart, your feelings, and your physical embodiment of how you’re present?
The leaders I've seen who are truly fulfilled—the ones who are "beating and raising" on their quarterlies and nailing their product roadmaps—are doing a lot of inward introspection. That allows them to have the clarity to communicate their vision and mission. It’s embodied. You can feel it when a leader has that, and you can feel it when they don’t.
Alex: I’m going to quote someone—I don’t know exactly who to attribute it to, but it resonated with me: "The journey of true discovery lies not in finding new lands, but in looking through new eyes."
A.J. Thomas: Oh, I love that. You just gave me chills.
Alex: There’s something about that, right? Because that’s effectively what I heard you say: it’s an internal journey. I find that sometimes the most difficult conversations are not even at work; they are in your personal relationships. I’m a father of three, and I’m starting to figure out that the things I do at work that aren't as impactful as I wish are often the same things that aren't working in my relationships with my kids or my partner. That was a big learning. No amount of "pitching" helps solve that!
It's interesting to go in and say, "Hey, this is a pattern of behavior I adapted that served its purpose at one time." Without judging or blaming others, you can say, "This is a gift; this thing is coming up and unlocking a learning area." You take yourself on an adventure of exploring: "What if I try new behaviors? What if I experiment with new ways of adopting this?" I’d love to hear your thoughts on linking work to spiritual transformation in personal life.
A.J. Thomas: Absolutely. As you were walking through that, I saw the through-line of how you think about self-awareness in service to your health—mental, physical, and emotional health. That feeds into how you think about longevity for yourself, your community, and your family.
If you can unlock that curiosity in your "self" and your "health," you also begin to reframe what wealth looks like. At the Lab, we aren't financial planners; we look at what wealth means to you. It could be time, money, relationships, or the work you're doing.
I sometimes work with founders who have just crossed their Series B or are in IPO prep. A dear friend and mentor of mine likes to say: "If you want to know the true character of a person, give them all kinds of money and power and see how it helps."
Alex: Yes. Remove the constraints and see what you get. Money is just a type of power.
A.J. Thomas: Exactly. It layers in a specific kind of power. If you haven't done that internal work before getting there, we find a conflict between how someone wants to show up externally versus how they think about themselves personally.
A lot of the work we do at the Lab is looking at those "chasms." Culture tends to optimize for "you are either this or you are that." But the most fulfilled leaders are the ones who go back to their grounding and say, "Even if it’s this or that, I am still this person. I am still a learner." They understand how things change them because they are grounded in who they are. You don't learn that in business school. You figure that out when you're in dire straits—maybe when you only have two months of runway left because your burn was so high. It all encompasses the same thing, but it's a matter of how conscious we are to those conversations while they are happening.
Alex: Yeah, I think business school can start some of those lessons. I have to give a shout-out to Stanford; the most popular class there is "Touchy Feely," also known as Interpersonal Dynamics. It sounds like you're familiar with that, but the premise is to start giving you some language—or at least awareness—around your external perception. Then you start connecting: "Well, that's not what I meant."
When you start thinking about how you show up externally, it typically starts unlocking all these internal narratives we have. But I don't think it finishes the job. I think it’s then up to you to go deeper into that personal journey. Ultimately, business schools still have a bit of an "influence others" mindset. It's a little external. They’ll say, "Okay, you need to be vulnerable to influence others." And I’m sorry, but aren't you freaking missing the point? The point of being vulnerable is not to fake vulnerability to manipulate someone. You also have to think, "I don't want to just throw up all my problems on people who aren't ready."
A.J. Thomas: I know, and that is the interesting part I'm curious about: the idea that vulnerability is binary—that you’re either telling all your secrets and feelings or you’re not. It’s really not that.
For me, what I've observed specifically—and I had the opportunity with the Lab to work with a few leaders within the astronaut selection group at NASA—is that vulnerability is actually within the present moment. How open are you right now? You don't have to give me the history of your entire childhood trauma to show me you're vulnerable. The pure act of being open to listening to somebody and holding space is vulnerability. Being able to share and say, "You know what? I see that. Here is what I’ve also gone through, and if it’s helpful, let’s have a conversation about it."
Vulnerability is in the moment, not a history report of all your past traumas. There’s a time and place for that, but when it’s done at a level of true, authentic vulnerability, you don't have to explain your "trauma credentials." You show up in a way where all of that is evident because you have the courage to be curious.
Alex: That’s beautiful. I’m thinking that sometimes the hardest thing is when you see a behavior in your child that triggers you, and you choose not to react. That means you need to be there, but it’s also a different type of vulnerability because it’s saying, "I can live with this. I can accept things that are not perfect and not try to control the situation."
A.J. Thomas: Exactly—not trying to "fix" it. Sometimes people just want you to not only hear them but to see them for who they are. A lot of that is just presence. In the business world, we’ve been conditioned by that "Pavlov’s dog" exercise: "If I do this, I get this." The moment we don't get the expected result, our whole world turns upside down. Whereas more embodied and present leaders say, "Interesting. I'm curious—what does it bring up for me now that the result isn't there?"
It’s like layering it into the business: "We’ve had nine straight quarters of growth, and now it’s not there." Instead of just doing more of the same, we get curious. we go back to having that conversation.
Alex: So, let's use the model you laid out. Let me ask you: what is most meaningful and impactful for you right now as we’re having this conversation? What comes up for you today?
A.J. Thomas: You know, I think what comes up for me is the word access. Growing up as someone who wanted to be a musical artist—I wanted to be a musician, it was a driving force...
Alex: Show us your mic! You have a mic here somewhere.
A.J. Thomas: Oh, you know what? I do. Here, let me see if I can bring this forward.
Alex: There you go! I love this. It feels like the 50s are back. I have one of those, too.
A.J. Thomas: Yeah, I’ve got a few more here in the studio. But what’s coming up for me is access. I always think about conversations like this where someone out there is looking for an insight or inspiration to get them started. This podcast, where you have conversations with folks with vast perspectives, is a way of opening doors.
If you look at my "stats"—I went to some amazing schools, I’ve done great things, I started a company—you probably wouldn't know the story behind all of that. I came to America and found out I was an undocumented immigrant. I lived in my car in the Bay Area while I was going to grad school. I’ve had the experience of being "A.J. Thomas"—walking into a room where people expect a man, and then being delightfully surprised when they see I'm not.
I’ve had to buck the trend against all these biases. It all comes from an informed path of knowing what it was like to not have. That has helped me think, "I can't be the only person who lacks access." I’ve made a conscious effort every day to think about what kind of other doors we can create, not just open. It’s easy to open doors that are already there. But are there doors we can create where there never was a portal? As a Filipino, first-generation immigrant woman, I never thought I would be in the rooms I’m in now. I feel the opportunity to relay that to the next generation. Even if it’s just for one person, it makes a difference.
Alex: You are your own personalized Dr. Strange in the realm of portal creation! I love it. That is a beautiful story. I wonder how important it was for you to have started from a place of "lack." Whether you felt it or not at the time, in an objective sense, it was there.
A.J. Thomas: Honestly, I didn't even know I didn't have anything.
Alex: You didn't realize it, but now you’re focused on creating an abundance mindset. It’s beautiful because many people who come to America with nothing feel they have something to prove—they have a chip on their shoulder. By the way, here is mine! (Gestures). I’m not just saying this to be polite; we all have that drive, that intensity, that need to perform that gets us into these top schools or drives your students at Berkeley.
Then, we achieve worldly success in one form or another, only to find it feels meaningless. We aren't happy or finished because that voice inside is still there. I’m curious what led you to this discovery, because this is a very deep conversation that I would expect to have with someone in their 60s or 70s. For those watching, you have such genuinely youthful energy, yet you have these deep inklings. My personal goal is to help the people I work with make their mistakes more efficiently on the journey to being their better selves. What led you on your specific journey?
A.J. Thomas: I hate to say this because it sounds so trite, but hindsight really is 20/20. As I said earlier, I didn't realize I didn't have much until I had more. That was an insight that hit me in my 20s when I saw what was available. It was a total surprise because I had zero expectation that I was ever going to be "this." I just leaned into it.
To this day, people ask me, "How do you do it all?" It’s a funny, endearing question, but my answer is simple: I don’t. I have a fantastic family at home that keeps me whole and grounded. Alex, I have three kids myself, and they are my biggest teachers right now. I have a 14-year-old in high school, a 9-year-old in elementary school, and a 4-year-old in transitional kindergarten. They are all in very different stages. Sometimes it does feel like Everything Everywhere All at Once, but there is a grounding in that. How do I ground myself? Again, I come back to the courage to be curious every day. That applies to the big moments—like a long-term strategic plan for organizational intelligence—and the micro-moments, like when my little guy is crying in the corner. Instead of saying, "Don't cry, you'll be fine," I wonder, "Why?"
Alex: That is so interesting. To connect the dots to the kids, there is a phrase that really resonates with me: "It’s not that parents help their kids grow up; it’s that kids help the parents grow up."
A.J. Thomas: Oh, absolutely!
Alex: And it sounds like this started for you in your 20s?
A.J. Thomas: Yes, I had my firstborn when I was 26. I didn't know what the heck I was doing—and for the record, I still don't! No secrets here. That is why this "battle cry" of the courage to be curious is so important. It challenges you to ask questions out of curiosity rather than certainty. It challenges you to go from the internal to the external, rather than letting the external stimulate your internal state. People tell me I have a lot of wisdom for someone just starting this specific venture, but I think wisdom is relative. There is a lot of wisdom in a four-year-old, too.
Alex: To have the heart of a four-year-old is the most beautiful thing because there are no blocks. There is just pure, unbridled human kindness and authenticity. I absolutely agree.
A.J. Thomas: I think that is the key. As humans and as leaders, how do we reframe ourselves to go back to that child we once were—the one who was curious and had the courage to say, "I’m going to go do that. I’m going to jump from one monkey bar to another"? How does that relate to jumping from one market to another or one industry to another to expand your enterprise?
I’ve written two children's books, and people often ask me why. I say, "Do you understand the market for children's books?" I think about it this way—and I’m going to speak like a product person now—you are touching the "user" with that product because everyone was once a kid.
Alex: Yeah.
A.J. Thomas: Nobody was born a grown-up.
Alex: And we still are kids. The secret to life is understanding that you’re often looking at a 12-year-old in a boardroom or on a Zoom call.
A.J. Thomas: Exactly. There is an opportunity for us to follow two rules in life. Rule number one: Don’t take yourself so seriously. Rule number two: See rule number one. There is a place for the "suits," but—
Alex: So true. That’s why I'm in France! We don’t take ourselves too seriously, but we take our food and wine very seriously.
A.J. Thomas: (Laughs) I think as we look at the world through a different lens, we can see innovation not just as a framework, but as a practice. My daughter shared a brilliant acronym with me when she was ten. Do you know what the acronym for FAIL is? First Attempt In Learning.
Alex: Oh, lovely. Yes.
A.J. Thomas: I told her, "I’m so looking forward to all of my fails!" I want to keep failing so I have that first attempt. If you do it a second time the same way, that’s a mistake—that requires a "root cause corrective action." My son also clued me into a show where they used the acronym UGLY: U Gotta Love Yourself.
Alex: Ooh, that’s so good.
A.J. Thomas: I realized I have to "get UGLY" so that I can fail. I have to love myself.
Alex: Fail more. Get UGLY. That’s beautiful. Now, for our audience listening to this, it sounds great, and yet there is a reality to your other role as a venture investor. In that world, there is chance, luck, and pattern matching. You have to say "no" to hundreds of people to pick just one.
By definition, you almost have to be "judgy." I’ve noticed a lot of investors start "sizing up" everyone they meet, and they bring that into their human relationships. My sense is the "venture mind" doesn't always work in the "family mind." How do you balance bringing these two worlds together holistically?
A.J. Thomas: One of the reasons I felt called to found Good Trouble Ventures was that I was already doing angel investing in the "future of workspace." I realized my kids will eventually be in this environment, and I had the opportunity to shape what that looks like. I did a lot of inner work around my passions and realized I felt most purposeful in the creative arts.
I saw many marginalized communities in that space—not "poor artists," but rather the fact that 98% of artists don't have a full-time job making a living. They are trying to figure out a system where they can continue to create. So I asked, "Who invests in creatives?"
Our thesis is about keeping the creator, the athlete, and the artist at the center of emerging technology. We invest in IP, content, and media—AI infrastructure "picks and shovels," SaaS stacks for the creator economy, and data platforms for sports and gaming. Investors are already in these verticals, but no one had consolidated them in a way that keeps the human creative at the center.
When we look at deals, we look at four things: the humans, the opportunity, the product, and the deal. For the humans, we ask: "Are you the right person right now, and do you have the conviction to create the impact you’re hoping for?" I look for character, specifically the willingness to change and pivot. Are they primed for growth?
That is everything. It’s vital for a long-term relationship. If a founder says, "We don't have competitors," it makes me bristle. It’s a signal that they aren't open to looking at the reality or saying, "I don't know." I’d much rather have a founder say, "That’s a great question, I don’t know, let me get back to you."
Alex: Let’s pause on the product for a second and drill into the founder’s mindset. You were at Google X, where you had unlimited resources for "moonshots." Many investors live in that world where the check size isn't the key—it's the massive opportunity. Yet, in creative businesses where the model isn't always clear, the premium is on scrappiness and adaptability.
I’ve taken a bootstrapping journey with my agency, and I think there’s a different mindset when you come from an immigrant background; you’re comfortable with a "basic" level of resources. How do you balance the "abundance mindset" of thinking 20 years ahead with being incredibly scrappy and resourceful in the short term?
A.J. Thomas: I have a really big grin on my face right now because I tend not to lead with the fact that I was at Google. I was at the "Moonshot Factory" (X), which Astro Teller—one of the most amazing humans on this planet—runs very differently.
He leads with what I’d call an "abundance of thinking" applied to the "scrappiness of execution." For example, the mindset ingrained in us was: "What is the lowest-cost way you can run this experiment and still achieve the necessary impact?" Contrary to popular belief, we did not have unlimited budgets at the Moonshot Factory. We were not a revenue-generating organization, so the premium was on resourceful thinking.
Innovation doesn't happen when you’re comfortable; it happens when you revel in your constraints—when you have both hands tied behind your back. If you look at the emerging technologies happening right now in Africa, for instance, there is a sharp contrast. In Silicon Valley, you have entrepreneurs within a stone's throw of Sand Hill Road investors and the best tech talent in the world. But think about an entrepreneur in Nairobi trying to create a remittance platform where there is no internet. That is where true innovation happens.
When I talk to founders, I love asking: "What is the scrappiest experiment you’ve ever run?" Astro was amazing at teaching us that an experiment isn't about proving data just to get next quarter's funding; it’s about reading signals. You can't be afraid to kill your project. There was a maniacal focus on "kill criteria." Even if your metrics were "up and to the right," if the signals were off, you had to be willing to end it. That lesson has been priceless for me at the Troublemaker Lab: experimentation requires scrappiness, and the price of admission to true innovation is the quality of your experimental design.
Alex: It’s interesting that you distinguish between metrics and signals. A metric might say, "We’ll make $10 million over the next two years," but a signal tells you that based on science and human factors, you’re about to fall into a trough you won't survive.
A.J. Thomas: Exactly. The game is about capacity. In innovation and moonshots, you have to decide where to put your time to grow something that could be even more impactful.
Alex: What you’re describing is very non-linear. It’s not the standard "derivative formula" where you just throw more salespeople or SDRs at a market to milk it—which is the de facto standard in the B2B software world. The breakout companies are the ones that find a constraint and figure out a more efficient way to solve it.
A.J. Thomas: It’s a mindset change. I have to credit Matt Oppenheimer, the CEO of Remitly. Regarding hiring—which is vital for listeners thinking about talent in the AI age—it’s tempting to hire purely for skills and expertise. But if you are a founding team of three, your next hire is 25% of your company.
You have to think about the culture you are bringing in, not just the skills. You can compound that principle into your product: "This next feature will dictate 40% of our trajectory in our P&L." It takes the courage to be curious to bring a project down to its essence so you can build on a strong foundation.
Alex: I love that. Looking back at the investment world, what are you seeing in these "enlightened" founders who are able to grow with the challenge? Are you identifying a specific prototype of the "perfect founder," or does such a thing even exist?
A.J. Thomas: One thing I’m observing—and getting really curious about—is that at the founder level, there is a lot of systems thinking happening. When ChatGPT first emerged, many people founded companies based on "point solutions"—solving one specific task like a calendar invite, an email, or a meeting recorder. Valuations skyrocketed because there was so much data ingestion, but it was largely incremental movement.
Now that the technology is ubiquitous and accessible, people are looking at it systematically. We are seeing a shift from a world of point solutions to platform solutions. For example, consider meeting recorders like Otter.ai. Previously, Google didn't have that feature; now they do. Look at Adobe or DocuSign—recently, I noticed you can manage contracts directly through Google Workspace. These used to be independent point solutions that enamored us during the first wave of tech.
Founders are now asking: "Is this point solution solving a pain point? Check. Now, is there an ecosystem that sustains it?" They are looking at the entire stack—calendar, meeting, email, insights—and asking what the holistic purpose of the product is. This is the next level for founders: moving from pain point to purpose. They are evolving into systematic problem solvers.
Alex: Beautiful. As we wrap up, let's go back to the "Creator" as the purpose. How do you define a creator? In our audience, many relate to the AI side of the equation; they create knowledge work. But the definition is changing into someone who takes a proactive step in getting people to engage with their ideas. It’s not enough to just put something out there; you have to get feedback, reach the right audience, and learn from it. We call it "Regenerative AI."
Some of our audience might feel they are creating "boring" or regulated material, but they still care about people making the right decisions and building trust. That isn't a classical definition of a creator, but I’m curious about your take.
A.J. Thomas: I love that journey you just described. I think a creator is someone who possesses both humility and ambitious thinking—at Good Trouble, we call it a "humbitious" mindset.
A creator is a rapid prototyper who lacks the ego to say, "Oh no, I missed the mark." Instead, they have the courage to be curious and ask, "Why didn't that hit?" That is how you develop true conviction. Even if your work feels "mundane" or involves compliance, if you are helping people reach decisions faster, consume knowledge better, or see around corners, you are a creator. You are ahead of the game by thinking about what actually helps people move forward. You can take that equation across any industry to create something purposeful and impactful.
Alex: That is a great reminder. If something is regulated, it’s because it actually matters. If nobody cared, it wouldn't be regulated.
A.J. Thomas: Wouldn't it be awesome to be the creator who makes compliance fun again? What an opportunity!
Alex: Well, I don't think it's ever been fun, but that would certainly be a first! I love how your approach resonates with this. It brings us back to themes like health, wellness, and self-awareness.
A.J., I love the vibe and the spirit of what you’re building. How can people find you and engage with your ideas?
A.J. Thomas: Please connect with me on LinkedIn—look for A.J. Thomas with the lightning bolt; I think I’m the only one! I’m also on Instagram @HelloAJThomas, or you can reach me at [email protected]. I’m very open and love having these conversations.
Alex: I loved this conversation, and I’m sure the audience will, too. Thank you for being so open, present, and intentionally positive.
A.J. Thomas: Thank you, Alex!