Magali Anderson is a global sustainability and innovation leader. She is a former Chief Sustainability and Innovation Officer at Holcim. She now serves on the boards of Anglo American and the Capitalist Coalition, mentors startups through the Creative Destruction Lab, and invests in ESG-focused ventures.
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1. From the Oil Rig to the Boardroom: Keeping Sustainability Real
Magali starts by sharing a defining moment from early in her career: working on an offshore oil rig at 22, far from home and surrounded almost entirely by men. With no internet, no outside support, and little idea of what to expect, the experience forced her to grow fast. It also grounded her thinking. She explains how that time taught her to respect the reality of frontline work and made her determined never to become a leader who designs big strategies that look good on paper but don’t work in practice.
From there, the conversation moves to sustainability and communication. Alex reflects on a point Magali had made earlier—that communication is too important to be left only to communication teams. Magali clarifies that she values communicators deeply, but stresses that messages about sustainability must be useful for real people doing real jobs. Big goals and polished language mean little if employees can’t see how those ideas connect to their daily work.
They also dig into the growing backlash against greenwashing. Magali explains that communication is powerful, but risky if it drifts away from science and facts. When stories become more important than reality, trust breaks down. She argues that sustainability communication must always be solid, checkable, and grounded in evidence—even if that makes the story less dramatic.
Сommunication is incredibly powerful, but it must be managed in collaboration with science-based fact-checking and reality checks. (Magali Anderson)
2. Why Knowing the Wall Is Coming Makes People Look Away
They begin with everyday examples, like Magali developing strong allergies for the first time in her life, which she links to pollution and stronger pollen. From there, the conversation widens to a bigger question: if climate change is now affecting almost everyone in visible, personal ways, why do some people still deny it or avoid taking it seriously?
Magali shares her honest frustration. She suggests that denial often comes from guilt—admitting the problem means admitting responsibility. Others, she says, fall into fatalism: the feeling that it’s already too late, so they might as well enjoy what’s left. That mindset worries her the most, because it leads people who could act to simply give up. She also talks about her growing disappointment with global climate forums like COP, which she feels are failing to produce meaningful outcomes, even when the impacts of climate change are impossible to ignore.
Alex reflects this back by naming the sense of short-term thinking that dominates today—living for now, even when we know the long-term consequences are severe. Magali agrees and introduces the idea of long-term responsibility, recommending the book The Good Ancestors. She explains the “boiling frog” metaphor: humans react quickly to sudden threats, but struggle to respond to slow, creeping dangers like climate change.
They then unpack how responsibility keeps getting passed around. Companies blame investors and customers, customers blame affordability, and governments blame voters. This creates a loop where no one feels able to act. Yet Magali points out that many companies that took sustainability seriously have actually done well, and that people usually make better choices when they’re properly informed.
Feeling guilty often leads to denial—you’d rather pretend nothing’s wrong than admit a mistake. Societies don’t encourage admitting errors; instead, people are pushed to continue being wrong. (Magali Anderson)
3. When Business Models Change, Climate Impact Changes Too
Magali starts at the country level. She explains why France has relatively low emissions, pointing to long-term decisions like its early investment in nuclear power. She then surprises some listeners by naming China as the country making the fastest progress today. Despite being a major emitter, China is investing heavily in solar energy, electric vehicles, and clean technologies—installing more solar panels in one year than the rest of the world combined. For Magali, this signals serious momentum, even if challenges remain.
The discussion then shifts to companies that have made sustainability work in practice. Magali shares a concrete example from her time at Holcim: launching low-carbon concrete that cut CO₂ emissions by 30%. At first, people said there was no market for it. But once the product existed, demand followed. Within two years, it was sold in 25 countries and made up a quarter of total sales. Her takeaway is simple: sometimes you have to act first instead of waiting for perfect proof.
Alex builds on this by introducing a bigger idea—moving from selling products to selling services. Magali agrees completely and calls this the most powerful shift companies can make. She gives examples like Philips selling “light” instead of light bulbs. When companies are paid for a service, they suddenly want products to last as long as possible. Durability becomes good business, not a problem.
They apply this logic to everyday items like phones and washing machines. Magali recalls how older appliances lasted decades, while modern ones often break after a few years. That’s not a technology problem, she argues—it’s a business model problem. If appliances were leased instead of sold, companies would profit from making them last longer.
The conversation then moves into construction. Magali describes projects where buildings are designed so materials can be reused, and where smart design cuts concrete use by up to 30% without compromising safety. These ideas dramatically reduce emissions—but they also challenge how companies sell and who they sell to. Instead of dealing with purchasing departments, firms need to work with architects and engineers. That requires new skills, new thinking, and often entirely new organizations.
When you buy a washing machine outright, companies don’t want it to last too long—they want you to replace it, and that applies to almost everything you buy. You could rent clothes, jewelry, appliances… a leasing model changes incentives completely. The company now puts all its effort into making items last longer. (Magali Anderson)
4. Changing the DNA of a Company: How Real Change Actually Happens
They start by discussing long, complex sustainability reports. While these reports look impressive to senior leaders, they often fail to connect with frontline employees—the ones whose daily work actually drives the company. Magali explains that for any initiative to succeed, it has to be simple, understandable, and worthwhile for the people on the ground. She always asked herself: is the effort required for this initiative worth it for the teams generating the revenue that funds it? If not, they didn’t pursue it.
Alex highlights the balance required in leadership: thinking strategically about long-term goals while staying grounded in day-to-day realities. Magali adds that the solution doesn’t have to be complicated—linking initiatives directly to objectives and incentives gives them real power. Employees respond when sustainability work aligns with measurable goals and rewards, rather than feeling like an extra burden.
The conversation then moves to Magali’s experience on the board of Anglo American. She emphasizes that her main contribution is bringing operational experience to strategic discussions. Having transformed companies from within, she can advise executives on what’s feasible, what has worked, and what pitfalls to avoid. She stresses that boards are most effective when they combine diverse expertise, and her perspective helps the company act faster and smarter.
If you can’t answer that positively, repeatedly, we don’t do it. The same applied when we sent requests to operations—like collecting data. AI helps reduce this burden now, but back then, the question was: Is it worth the distraction for the people on the ground, who are actually generating the revenue that funds our initiatives? (Magali Anderson)
Check the episode's Transcript (AI-generated) HERE.