See show notes for this episode: S 02 | Ep 43 Rebranding the CMO: Drop the "ING" and Speak the CEO's Language.
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:54,660 [Alex Shevelenko]
Welcome to Experience-focused Leaders. I am delighted to connect you today to Payal Raina, uh, founder of fin.techmarketing community, and a marketer herself. Payal, welcome to the pod.
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,120 [Payal Raina]
Thank you so much, Alex. It's a pleasure to being here today.
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:44,380 [Alex Shevelenko]
Well, I love what you're building with the community. Uh, it is a, uh, a c- initiative that we were fortunate to see how you started out, uh, bootstrapping it on your own, and now, you know, we're happy to support it in kind and participate in one of your webinars and, and are delighted now to see that it's thriving and having a momentum of our other friends, much larger than Relator supporting you, like KPMG and TCS, Tata Consultancy Services. So tell us about this community, uh, and why communities are becoming such a key, you know, key pillar in how we get business done in 2026 and beyond.
00:04:45,440 --> 00:05:03,300 [Payal Raina]
Great. No, thank you so much, Alex. It's a great question, um, indeed. So, uh, I started, um, thinking about the community back in COVID, where we all were looking at the world through Zoom lenses, and I was thinking about, "How on earth are we gonna be closing million-dollar deals-
00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:04,360 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:10,550 [Payal Raina]
... um, over, you know, Zoom calls and, um, and, and where the human touch is so important?"
00:05:10,550 --> 00:05:10,550 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:05:10,550 --> 00:05:16,700 [Payal Raina]
So that's how the journey started about me looking for a community for myself-
00:05:16,700 --> 00:05:16,710 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:05:16,710 --> 00:05:23,100 [Payal Raina]
... and then not finding one, and I, you know, as Mahatma Gandhi says, "Be the change you wanna see in the world."
00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:23,160 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:34,120 [Payal Raina]
So, um, I took that seriously. Not to mention, we were watching Boris Johnson's briefing every day, and we thought none of us are gonna come out alive from the COVID. So, so yeah, so rest is history.
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,480 [Alex Shevelenko]
So you had nothing to lose [laughs] except for, except for
00:05:38,540 --> 00:05:40,750 [Alex Shevelenko]
the worst few days of your lives and, uh-
00:05:40,750 --> 00:05:40,750 [Payal Raina]
[laughs]
00:05:40,750 --> 00:05:43,719 [Alex Shevelenko]
... and so you went ahead, "Let's build a world." All right.
00:05:43,720 --> 00:06:17,524 [Payal Raina]
E- exactly. So I didn't want to do, you know, leave Planet Earth with, with a regret, so I thought, "Let's give it a go," as you rightly said. And, um, I spotted a gap in the industry where I felt there were lots of, um, uh, communities out there, but they were very much operating in silos. Like, there are lots of women's communities, financial services community, tech community, fintech, CMOs, et cetera. So my kind of vision was how can- Can we bring financial services, tech, and fintech together? Because I could see-
00:06:17,524 --> 00:06:17,554 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:06:17,554 --> 00:06:36,584 [Payal Raina]
... the convergence happening, um, in the industry, and that very much aligns with my personal background. Like, you know, I used to be working for big banks to big organizations like Microsoft, GEs, um, and, and, and driving marketing for payment tech and fintechs. So that's how the journey started. Um, and, uh-
00:06:36,584 --> 00:06:51,704 [Alex Shevelenko]
So, so let me pause here. Just, so what you're saying is there's this gap where, like, startup bros and chicks or whatever, like, show up and talk to other startup people, and that, that's great, like, if you wanna talk about some inner things.
00:06:51,764 --> 00:06:51,894 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm.
00:06:51,894 --> 00:06:58,664 [Alex Shevelenko]
But it doesn't actually build go-to-market relationship, doesn't help you to get to know your customer.
00:06:58,664 --> 00:06:58,744 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:06:58,744 --> 00:07:21,464 [Alex Shevelenko]
And then if you're on, on the other side, if you're, like, a corporate, it doesn't help you get innovative ideas ingested into your organization. And so, like, these h- communities historically kind of hanged out but didn't talk to the most important inputs into themselves, right? And they were a little in- insular. Is that... Did I get that right?
00:07:21,464 --> 00:07:54,114 [Payal Raina]
No, no, spot on. You, you, you... I couldn't have, uh, said it myself beautifully, so you, you've articulated really nicely. So yeah, so we kind of build the community as a go-to global market platform where we could be a key part in the ecosystem, bringing, um, you know, financial services, whether it's traditional finance, hedge funds, um, asset management funds, and then your disruptor fintechs and the techs which are providing infrastructure all together, as you rightly said, looking at the customer journey from-
00:07:54,114 --> 00:07:54,624 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:07:54,624 --> 00:08:16,194 [Payal Raina]
... end to end, and, um, and, and, and having those honest conversations. So yeah, that was, that was the idea. But, but we are very niche in terms of, you know, financial services and techs because we saw, um, the, the shift where banks were looking at these fintechs, um, from more than a competitors to collaborators.
00:08:16,194 --> 00:08:16,244 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:08:16,244 --> 00:08:58,124 [Payal Raina]
So there was that shift we were noticing. And it was good timing, you know. We were all sitting at home. And, um, fast-forward it now to six years' time, the community is a peer-led. Uh, we have folks on the board and, um, you know, the, uh, the, the, the chapter leads in Hong Kong, Singapore, New York. Everybody came in to support to build this global go-to-market community platform. Um, and, and I'm really excited because now we have got over, uh, 25,000 subscribers and members globally who are coming in to help us connect, learn, and grow.
00:08:58,124 --> 00:09:32,234 [Alex Shevelenko]
That's amazing. And, and just to give you a shout-out, one of our favorite podcast guests, uh, Scott Brinker, was just featured in your London, uh, London meetup, uh, which was, was, was a spectacular event. So I think you're bringing, again, these different disciplines, right, that historically maybe l- s- sit in their silos. And then I think the finan- fin- financial focus, financial market focus makes sense. It's not a niche. It's a trillion-dollar mega, mega space, obviously. [laughs]
00:09:32,234 --> 00:09:32,434 [Payal Raina]
Yeah.
00:09:32,434 --> 00:10:05,184 [Alex Shevelenko]
And, uh, and also, it does require specialization, and I think what we are seeing, because we focus on regulated verticals, like, we are n- practically, while we could provide one core platform, we're building very specific knowledge around the, the s- the vertical specific needs, you know, whether it's in finance or insurance. Um, and I... It sounds like you're providing that opportunity to have some horizontal vendors and some horizontal providers-
00:10:05,184 --> 00:10:05,193 [Payal Raina]
Mm
00:10:05,193 --> 00:10:13,294 [Alex Shevelenko]
... that wanna specialize, and then in-depth, unique knowledge of, like, "Here's what we need," and so that that dialogue is happening-
00:10:13,294 --> 00:10:13,294 [Payal Raina]
Mm
00:10:13,294 --> 00:10:16,764 [Alex Shevelenko]
... between the insiders and the service providers.
00:10:17,944 --> 00:10:22,944 [Payal Raina]
H- h- 100%, because we wanna hear the story from both sides of the camps, right?
00:10:22,944 --> 00:10:23,344 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:10:23,344 --> 00:10:33,814 [Payal Raina]
And, and, and kind of t- going back to your initial question about why communities are so important than now, than ever before, is because they are building that human connection.
00:10:33,814 --> 00:10:33,824 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:10:33,824 --> 00:10:58,154 [Payal Raina]
They're building a safe space which, um, you know, uh, sometimes it could be hard to find. And, and you're right, yes, financial service is a trillion-dollar industry. Um, but when, uh, the business and marketing leaders, you know, found out we have got this community which is bringing not just their FS peers together, but also fintechs, because they can learn from-
00:10:58,154 --> 00:10:58,154 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:10:58,154 --> 00:10:58,994 [Payal Raina]
... how they're agile-
00:10:58,994 --> 00:10:58,994 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:10:58,994 --> 00:10:59,824 [Payal Raina]
... how they're nimble-
00:10:59,824 --> 00:10:59,834 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:10:59,834 --> 00:11:00,824 [Payal Raina]
... how they're disruptors.
00:11:00,824 --> 00:11:01,634 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:11:01,634 --> 00:11:05,754 [Payal Raina]
So that, that kind of drove trust and collaboration.
00:11:05,754 --> 00:11:05,764 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:11:05,764 --> 00:11:10,504 [Payal Raina]
And as you know, trust is, um, a new key currency. Um-
00:11:10,504 --> 00:11:10,884 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:11:10,884 --> 00:11:18,794 [Payal Raina]
... and all the work Relator is doing, as you said, from a digital standpoint, and particularly how you're servicing the market is so regulated. Alex-
00:11:18,794 --> 00:11:18,794 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:11:18,794 --> 00:11:42,224 [Payal Raina]
... I'm sure you feel the same way, that it's a very different beast. You can't just, you know, uh, package it as a B2B or B2C. It's, it needs its own focus as a community. Um, so and, and a good example is, like, on Thursday, this Thursday, we are running, uh, a dinner after work, and we are bringing all the CMOs of asset management, um, and wealth management-
00:11:42,224 --> 00:11:42,234 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:11:42,234 --> 00:11:47,144 [Payal Raina]
... together. So yeah, so I think having those dialogues, both from FS and tech, is, is really important-
00:11:47,144 --> 00:11:47,274 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:11:47,274 --> 00:11:48,743 [Payal Raina]
... to build trust and collaboration.
00:11:49,764 --> 00:12:01,494 [Alex Shevelenko]
Well, I, I think one of the words that, um, is important to us is relationships, right? It's even in the, one of the, like, relating to someone and relationship. It's kind of they're connected.
00:12:01,494 --> 00:12:01,504 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:12:01,504 --> 00:12:07,664 [Alex Shevelenko]
Relaying information, relating, and the best way to relay something meaningful is through a relationship.
00:12:07,664 --> 00:12:07,674 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:12:07,674 --> 00:12:19,069 [Alex Shevelenko]
And I think you're, you're bleeding edge on, um, in-person, uh, relationships and then moving that into digital- ... uh, communications as well.
00:12:19,069 --> 00:12:19,080 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm.
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:30,520 [Alex Shevelenko]
And from, from our point of view, the, what you describe, this, the, the trust, um, is a combination of, you know, is this a trusted source?
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:31,139 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm.
00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:38,720 [Alex Shevelenko]
Is this a relevant piece of information, right? And then, and then is, is, so trusted means, like, it's not some AI slop, right-
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:38,790 [Payal Raina]
Yeah
00:12:38,790 --> 00:12:47,270 [Alex Shevelenko]
... that is gonna get me fired. Uh, is this relevant, meaning, like, if the content is easier to create. Uh-
00:12:47,270 --> 00:12:47,270 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm
00:12:47,270 --> 00:12:56,020 [Alex Shevelenko]
... like, what matters to me is the content that I can get to that's relevant to me, particularly to me in, in my context.
00:12:56,020 --> 00:12:56,220 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm.
00:12:56,220 --> 00:13:05,460 [Alex Shevelenko]
And then the third piece is, you know, is it moving beyond information and into something that's experiential that I could-
00:13:05,460 --> 00:13:05,470 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm
00:13:05,470 --> 00:13:57,200 [Alex Shevelenko]
... go ingest into my head, into new way of doing things, act on. And sometimes that spontaneity happens in, in person. Uh, you, you really feel that. And I, I think the... But, but to scale it to your team and to move it beyond, you also need the digital tween to that in-person interaction. And so that's our obsession, is how do you build trust, relevance, and experience that drives behavioral change versus, like, let's shove, as we marketers we know, let's shove more information. Let's shout more. Let's give more monologues about how great we are, or let's do more pseudo-manufactured case studies about customers that are gonna maybe not be very trustworthy [laughs] because they, they come from a vendor. So I, I think you're, we're going at the same, uh, goal.
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:57,230 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm.
00:13:57,230 --> 00:14:04,830 [Alex Shevelenko]
Uh, but I think we're obviously building a slightly more scalable product-driven approach to what you're building was communities.
00:14:04,830 --> 00:14:04,840 [Payal Raina]
Right.
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:56,770 [Alex Shevelenko]
But the, the idea is that you're the buyer, um, the buyer-seller relationship, for lack of a better word, should be more partner-partner relationship. It's a comm- it's a community relationship, and we're, we're, we're here to help, and if we're not a good fit, uh, let people discover that and, you know, come back when we could be a good fit to their problems. Like, those are the best vendors think like that. The best, um, uh, the best, you know, the best buyers think of, like, long-term relationship with vendors and don't wanna burn bridges. Because innovation is happening so fast, you know, you don't wanna have a bad reputation as somebody who burns fintechs or startups and, you know, does pseudo projects. So I, I think that's sort of the... You're building a little bit of a more of an accountability-
00:14:56,770 --> 00:14:58,370 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm
00:14:58,370 --> 00:15:12,500 [Alex Shevelenko]
... into, into these community efforts. Like, what have you found in this, in this thread of trusted, you know, experiences? What resonates the most with people who participate or sponsor the community?
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:29,620 [Payal Raina]
So, uh, first of all, Alex, I think you, you've hit, um, uh, you know, on, on a few points here, which is, which is absolutely super critical. So from a community standpoint, what resonates the most is that peer validation, if I have to summarize-
00:15:29,620 --> 00:15:29,650 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm-hmm
00:15:29,650 --> 00:15:37,470 [Payal Raina]
... it in one word. And it could be peer validation in terms of given the community is quite senior, it's a very senior-
00:15:37,470 --> 00:15:37,470 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm-hmm
00:15:37,470 --> 00:15:40,880 [Payal Raina]
... like, over 80% are decision-makers, like C-suite heads-
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:40,910 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:46,310 [Payal Raina]
... department heads. Now, as you know, the more senior you go, you get siloed, right?
00:15:46,310 --> 00:15:46,340 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:15:46,340 --> 00:16:00,190 [Payal Raina]
People expect you to know, and I'm sure you as a, you know, CEO, people expect you to know all the answers. But there's an opportunity where you wanna validate whether it's onboarding a new, new vendor, as you said, right?
00:16:00,190 --> 00:16:00,260 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:05,670 [Payal Raina]
Um, whether it's making sure, am I on the right track by implementing this right strategy for my business?
00:16:06,850 --> 00:16:27,140 [Payal Raina]
So, so we kind of then support our, you know, uh, peers and our members through that journey. So whether they are looking to make a decision to onboard, whether they are looking to build their own brand, whether they are looking for a soundboard, uh, whether they are looking for mentoring, coaching, they need some extra-
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:27,240 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:35,360 [Payal Raina]
... training. So, so the community becomes like a home, and that home resonates with them. So there have been-
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:35,480 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm-hmm
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:55,660 [Payal Raina]
... people, uh, a- and again, Alex, like, folks like us, right, you, you, you have been following and been part of the community since we started back in, like, 2022, et cetera, like back in the days. Um, and, and they, you know, they just keep coming back, and they... And that's how the community has grown, through word of mouth. Um-
00:16:55,660 --> 00:16:56,180 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:16:56,180 --> 00:17:15,410 [Payal Raina]
So, so yeah, anyways, a long answer to your short question there. It's about, you know, having that peer validation that builds the trust, and hence for us, it's not onboarding any vendors to the community, but most of the businesses or solution providers are recommended by the members.
00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:15,440 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:38,610 [Payal Raina]
So it's a very membership-driven community where... Another classic example is of, you know, uh, a couple of years ago, as you know, the job market was going down. Lots of the roles were getting redundant. People were making and taking fractional roles. So the members came to us and they said, "How is the community supporting as part of fractional roles?"
00:17:38,610 --> 00:17:38,640 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:59,900 [Payal Raina]
So then we launched our talent board. So yeah, so I think it's very much driven by what members say, and we are built by practitioners for practitioners, and, and they are the one who are helping us to pivot when we need to. Um, for example, they wanted an AI training. Uh, as you know-
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:00,520 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:27,090 [Payal Raina]
... UK, you know, there's a, there's a regulation around Europe, uh, training. So yeah, so we're kind of delivering to what they want, so they feel listened, heard, and also they can see everything in action. So yeah, and I think that's where, g- getting back to what you said, whether what, how you are supporting the businesses, it's about that trust and collaboration because they trust us that the vendors or the solution providers in the community are gonna bring, you know-
00:18:27,090 --> 00:18:27,090 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:18:27,090 --> 00:18:34,200 [Payal Raina]
... uh, they are there for the right purpose, exactly how you articulated, um, you know, in terms of how you work with other businesses and your clients.
00:18:34,936 --> 00:18:47,026 [Alex Shevelenko]
So you're, you're enabling a dialogue at scale fun- fundamentally, versus traditional marketing is a little bit like I get up on top of a pedestal and just yell and scream in all directions and hope some of that lands.
00:18:47,026 --> 00:18:47,096 [Payal Raina]
Yeah.
00:18:47,096 --> 00:19:44,236 [Alex Shevelenko]
You're, you're enabling ma- pa- mass parallel conversations. That's beautiful. Um, so you brought up AI, uh, and you brought up, uh, turnover in the industry. So I think if I, if I had to take these two topics, so one of your s- you know, stakeholder audiences is CMOs and senior marketers, and I think that is w- the probably the highest turnover role inside corporate Britain, corporate America, corporate Singapore, is the CMO. Uh, and then the other one is AI, you know, uh, innovation, disruption, bandwagon that we're all sitting on top of a volcano and, and, and trying to figure out, you know, how to get some useful energy from that, uh, and not get burned. So what... Let's start with the pressure on the CMOs that you're seeing that are kind of members of the community. W- what, um,
00:19:45,736 --> 00:19:55,696 [Alex Shevelenko]
w- like, what's, what's at stake for them of not getting it right, of not, of missing their impact in that year and then getting fired and looking for the new, for the new role?
00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:11,716 [Payal Raina]
Yeah. No, look, um, uh, let me, let me answer the first part, and, and these are all good questions, right? So the, the, the, I think the pressure of, on the CMOs, particularly in 2026, has reached to a boiling point now, right?
00:20:11,716 --> 00:20:11,956 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:20:11,956 --> 00:20:16,896 [Payal Raina]
The, the honeymoon phase of AI experimentation is over.
00:20:16,896 --> 00:20:17,046 [Alex Shevelenko]
Right.
00:20:17,046 --> 00:20:26,216 [Payal Raina]
Right? All I've heard this for time and time again. Uh, the, the board is now demanding to see, you know, a, a hard ROI on-
00:20:26,216 --> 00:20:26,276 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:20:26,276 --> 00:20:50,146 [Payal Raina]
... AI investment the marketings are making, whether it's, uh, depending on the size and scale of the organizations. And, um, it's, it's, uh, so, so, so, yeah, so it goes back to the basics about doing more with less. So I, I feel there is, if you look at, like, a recent data from Gartner, you would notice that there's a, um, a maturity gap crisis. And what I mean-
00:20:50,146 --> 00:20:50,146 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:20:50,146 --> 00:20:56,516 [Payal Raina]
... by that is there's a disconnect between, um, like re- uh, like, ambition and reality.
00:20:56,516 --> 00:20:56,856 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:20:56,856 --> 00:21:06,416 [Payal Raina]
And, um, for example, the goal is, as per the Gartner report that got launched recently, I don't know the exact name, but it said 70% of CMOs say-
00:21:06,416 --> 00:21:06,426 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:21:06,426 --> 00:21:09,726 [Payal Raina]
... that they would need to be becoming an AI leaders now.
00:21:09,726 --> 00:21:09,756 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:21:09,756 --> 00:21:13,236 [Payal Raina]
And that is very critical for their goal in 2026.
00:21:13,236 --> 00:21:13,476 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:21:13,476 --> 00:21:18,766 [Payal Raina]
But the reality is only 30% have reported-
00:21:18,766 --> 00:21:18,776 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:21:18,776 --> 00:21:25,805 [Payal Raina]
... a mature data where they can actually demonstrate, whether it's terms of building right AI infrastructure in the, in their teams-
00:21:25,805 --> 00:21:25,805 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:21:25,805 --> 00:21:30,596 [Payal Raina]
... whether having the right talent, the skill set to actually scale AI.
00:21:30,596 --> 00:21:30,616 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:21:30,616 --> 00:21:55,496 [Payal Raina]
So I think there is, um... So the, I, I would say, like, a CMO, um, are, are raiding their traditional budget to fund their, you know, to fund AI, um, and, uh, to build the infrastructure to show results, so that's why they're facing an intense scrutiny from the CFOs, because it's still kind of, you know, they need to prove the ROI. But I'm gonna pause now. Does that kind of, uh, yeah-
00:21:55,496 --> 00:21:55,506 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:21:55,506 --> 00:21:57,246 [Payal Raina]
... give you a bit of an insight there?
00:21:57,246 --> 00:22:04,616 [Alex Shevelenko]
So there's the, the, the prove the ROI, but let's forget AI, AI for a second. You know, like, like, pre-AI,
00:22:05,716 --> 00:22:07,256 [Alex Shevelenko]
what, what do you feel,
00:22:08,296 --> 00:22:10,216 [Alex Shevelenko]
uh, is the biggest kind of
00:22:11,416 --> 00:23:26,676 [Alex Shevelenko]
lever for CMOs to keep their job? [laughs] You know, like, I think that's... Is, is... 'Cause it sort of... And a lot of y- members in the community are B2B, uh, that's why, like, the, the buying relationship is, is an important. So I, you know, historically, the B2B CMO is, is seen as weaker power-wise than a maybe B2C, uh, CMO, right? They are a little bit at the mercy of pleasing the sales organization. Um, and, and so I'm curious as to what, what are v- what are the patterns that you're seeing, and what, what are the most successful CMOs in the community are doing, uh, to c- you know, to have continuous impact? Because sh- unfortunately, you know, you just can't have that much impact if you're have only a year in the role, right? Like, by the time you warm up and start running some campaigns, you know, you're out. And so that, that's gotta be, you know, something that I think about when we're starting to partner with a, with a marketing organization, is, like, how do we make them, um, successful? And I'm really proud of that, but I think that, you know, I don't have all the answers. I'm curious to see what, if you've seen anything in your community. And obviously, AI is one of those pillars, right? Like, but it's not the only one is my guess.
00:23:27,736 --> 00:23:33,496 [Payal Raina]
Sure. No, no, no. And, and, and, yes, uh, as strange as it sounds, there was a time before AI [laughs] and, um-
00:23:33,496 --> 00:23:33,616 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:23:33,616 --> 00:23:48,656 [Payal Raina]
... um, it's, it's part and parcel of the, what we do now. So, look, um, from the first and foremost challenge, which, uh, we have been hearing across 100 countries where our members are, right, in, in North America, Asia, US-
00:23:48,656 --> 00:23:49,256 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:23:49,256 --> 00:23:54,456 [Payal Raina]
... um, Europe, is mostly about getting a, a seat on the board.
00:23:54,456 --> 00:23:54,536 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:23:54,536 --> 00:24:01,436 [Payal Raina]
So if you s- look at the percentage of number of CMOs who are gonna be... And, and that means having the voice on the table, so that's number one.
00:24:01,436 --> 00:24:02,336 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:02,336 --> 00:24:44,656 [Payal Raina]
So, um, uh, and, and here, here's a fun, fun fact for you. Uh, some of the members mentioned that, uh, one individual, um, uh, who actually had, uh, his job title was chief marketing officer, he dropped I-N-G from his job title and was chief market officer. And guess what? Um, in few months' time, you know, people perceived him differently, and he actually got a seat in the board because people thought it was... And it was same thing he was doing. So I think the irony is marketers, sadly, aren- are, are not doing a good job kind of positioning, uh, and marketing themselves. [laughs] Um, and, uh, one of the key requirements and the pressure from the businesses is to speak-
00:24:44,656 --> 00:24:44,725 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:24:44,725 --> 00:24:45,656 [Payal Raina]
... the CEO language.
00:24:46,384 --> 00:24:46,964 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:24:46,964 --> 00:24:59,324 [Payal Raina]
And, and that is so, so critical. And, and hence, as you rightly said, the tenure of, average tenure of a CMO in most of the organization, again, there are so many drivers and variables-
00:24:59,324 --> 00:24:59,334 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:24:59,334 --> 00:25:02,784 [Payal Raina]
... but it's, like, max like one to two years. Um-
00:25:02,784 --> 00:25:04,284 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah. So basically-
00:25:04,284 --> 00:25:04,354 [Payal Raina]
And-
00:25:04,354 --> 00:25:37,264 [Alex Shevelenko]
... suggestion number one, spoken like a true marketer, is to rebrand yourself from chief marketing out to chief market- or maybe chief go-to-market officer. Like that, that... You heard it here. I haven't heard that one before, but I think that... [laughs] And be- because I think sadly the chief revenue officer is, 90% of the time, is not the CMO person. It's, it's the sales leader that takes that, that function, which I, I kind of hoped... You know, the, my vision was that marketers need to, to behave like sellers, and the be-
00:25:37,264 --> 00:25:37,274 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm
00:25:37,274 --> 00:25:43,804 [Alex Shevelenko]
... uh, and the best marketers will behave like sellers and deliver revenue, and the best sellers will behave a lot more like marketers.
00:25:43,804 --> 00:25:44,224 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:25:44,224 --> 00:26:07,064 [Alex Shevelenko]
And so I think, I've, I hope that the more of the marketers would take up that ample and, and drive, uh, the revenue banner. But it- for whatever reason, I haven't seen, you know, the, uh, the title doesn't, doesn't represent marketers as much. Have you, have you seen something different? Are you seeing positive trends in this direction, or it's still exception, not the rule?
00:26:08,364 --> 00:26:21,704 [Payal Raina]
Uh, I would still say, um, yes, there has been, uh, quite a few positive trends. One of the things we observed was, I don't know, Alex, if you heard, there was a job title called CMT, so chief marketing technologist.
00:26:21,704 --> 00:26:22,294 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:26:22,294 --> 00:26:26,724 [Payal Raina]
Be- as you know, particularly in the fa- last few years post-pandemic, there-
00:26:26,724 --> 00:26:26,854 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:26:26,854 --> 00:26:31,734 [Payal Raina]
... everybody has to be, like, now an expert on tech stack or to some extent, right?
00:26:31,734 --> 00:26:31,764 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:26:31,764 --> 00:26:42,424 [Payal Raina]
All are leveraging so much. So technology was a bread and butter. So we did see that shift where, um, it was more like a CMT role, where you need to-
00:26:42,424 --> 00:26:42,434 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:26:42,434 --> 00:26:49,194 [Payal Raina]
... understand technology. You need to be, um, uh, you know, understanding how the tech stack works, et cetera. Um, and-
00:26:49,194 --> 00:26:52,194 [Alex Shevelenko]
So you're like the CIO of the marketing organization basically-
00:26:52,194 --> 00:26:52,194 [Payal Raina]
100%
00:26:52,194 --> 00:26:55,044 [Alex Shevelenko]
... is kind of... Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's great.
00:26:55,044 --> 00:27:02,504 [Payal Raina]
Yeah. No, exactly. So I think going back to your question then, to then recap, to say, look, speak the CEO or CFO language. That's really important-
00:27:02,504 --> 00:27:02,514 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:27:02,514 --> 00:27:14,524 [Payal Raina]
... in order to be, you know, having that voice on the table. If you keep looking at vanity metrics, that's not gonna take you anywhere. These many clicks, these many followers. The question comes, so what? Um-
00:27:14,524 --> 00:27:14,714 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:27:14,714 --> 00:27:20,164 [Payal Raina]
... and kind of working closely, super closely in line with the sales team, right?
00:27:20,164 --> 00:27:20,264 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:27:20,264 --> 00:27:28,624 [Payal Raina]
It's all about driving the pipeline, the growth, the business, and how the brand story or the company story is gonna help bridge that gap.
00:27:28,624 --> 00:27:28,804 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:27:28,804 --> 00:27:37,244 [Payal Raina]
So I think, I feel marketers, CMOs or CMTs or, you know, however you wanna call them, end of the day, they need to be a storyteller, whether to your-
00:27:37,244 --> 00:27:37,324 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:27:37,324 --> 00:27:38,524 [Payal Raina]
... investors, whether to your-
00:27:38,524 --> 00:27:38,574 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:27:38,574 --> 00:27:39,654 [Payal Raina]
... board, whether to your-
00:27:39,654 --> 00:27:39,724 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:27:39,724 --> 00:27:40,864 [Payal Raina]
... clients, whether to your-
00:27:40,864 --> 00:27:40,874 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:27:40,874 --> 00:27:41,824 [Payal Raina]
... staff members.
00:27:41,824 --> 00:27:41,954 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:27:41,954 --> 00:27:48,264 [Payal Raina]
And if they're doing a poor job, sad to say, you know, um, uh, you know, yeah, the, the role might not
00:27:49,544 --> 00:27:50,944 [Payal Raina]
w- you know, sustain for a long time.
00:27:52,044 --> 00:28:29,654 [Alex Shevelenko]
And, and I think on that note, you know, there is obviously the brand and the storytelling expert of marketers, and then there's, like, demand gen stories where, like, we have that many SDRs, that many inbounds, SQL, MQLs. Like, all the, all the buzzwords that kind of go from a pipeline, traditional pipeline generation. And it feels that in this AI noise-level world, the demand gen is obviously still the critical measurement, right? Like, it's like, uh, how much pipeline do we contribute to, that, that ends up being revenue.
00:28:29,654 --> 00:28:29,664 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm.
00:28:29,664 --> 00:28:34,464 [Alex Shevelenko]
But it's, it's getting harder and harder and harder to break through.
00:28:34,464 --> 00:28:34,664 [Payal Raina]
Yeah.
00:28:34,664 --> 00:29:00,404 [Alex Shevelenko]
Um, uh, is that, uh... So s- does that kind of lead us back to storytelling, community, other initiatives that are, that are sort of trying to have differentiated approaches to, to the noisy marketplace, where, um, you know, traditional acquisit- demand gen acquisition channels are just getting overloaded and not as effective?
00:29:00,404 --> 00:29:00,664 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm.
00:29:00,664 --> 00:29:28,654 [Alex Shevelenko]
Uh, what's your take on that? Like, and you bene- uh, we... It sounds like the community is benefiting from some of that. Motion, partner-led strategies is another area that we're seeing. You know, what are you... what have you been observing, uh, e- especially maybe in midsize businesses where, you know, it's not a mega relationship, w- which those maybe have not changed as much, but the ones that relied, you know, on maybe high-volume demand gen tactics in the past?
00:29:28,654 --> 00:29:28,864 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:29:30,564 --> 00:29:42,904 [Payal Raina]
Mm. Yeah, no, look, um, there, there are two dimensions of this, um, you know, question here. So one is particularly, like, let's, uh, from a financial services standpoint, where their brand awareness is quite high, right?
00:29:42,904 --> 00:29:43,024 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:29:43,024 --> 00:29:49,613 [Payal Raina]
So for them, it's less about demand gen, but more about retention and increasing the share of wallet.
00:29:49,613 --> 00:29:49,623 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:29:49,624 --> 00:29:55,123 [Payal Raina]
Of course, there is demand gen elements. So I think given the, as a community, we are bringing two, uh, pull-ups for this segment-
00:29:55,124 --> 00:29:59,954 [Alex Shevelenko]
Right, since you have, you have those... Right. You have... For that larger segment, it's different. Sh- it's-
00:29:59,954 --> 00:29:59,954 [Payal Raina]
Yes
00:29:59,954 --> 00:30:03,444 [Alex Shevelenko]
... retention because there's so much competition. Right.
00:30:03,444 --> 00:30:03,624 [Payal Raina]
Yeah.
00:30:03,624 --> 00:30:04,044 [Alex Shevelenko]
Okay.
00:30:04,044 --> 00:30:06,044 [Payal Raina]
And, and then you've got your startup and scale-ups-
00:30:06,044 --> 00:30:06,054 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah, yeah
00:30:06,054 --> 00:30:07,613 [Payal Raina]
... as you rightly said, where they-
00:30:07,613 --> 00:30:07,844 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:30:07,844 --> 00:30:36,084 [Payal Raina]
... have different challenges because nobody knows. And, um, regardless, both parties or both camps need to tell their stories, but the relevance, the significance, and how they narrate is, is very different, um, on, on, on the, on the two sides. So for me, what's, what's really important, uh, particularly when you're looking to cut through the noise, as you said, how can they cut through the noise is, um, firstly, uh, you know, brand is back. Um, that was one of the key-
00:30:36,084 --> 00:30:36,244 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:30:36,244 --> 00:30:43,534 [Payal Raina]
... things we were discussing at our European conference in London a couple of weeks ago. Not that it had ever disappeared anywhere [laughs] but, uh-
00:30:43,534 --> 00:30:43,534 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:30:43,534 --> 00:30:50,308 [Payal Raina]
... people are realizing that- People wanna work with people. Again, it's nothing new-
00:30:50,308 --> 00:30:50,317 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:30:50,317 --> 00:30:51,108 [Payal Raina]
... but the trust-
00:30:51,108 --> 00:30:51,208 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:30:51,208 --> 00:30:53,008 [Payal Raina]
... that Alex you talked about, right?
00:30:53,008 --> 00:30:53,208 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:30:53,208 --> 00:30:56,047 [Payal Raina]
And that trust will help you to get that repeat business.
00:30:56,048 --> 00:30:56,138 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:30:56,138 --> 00:31:05,468 [Payal Raina]
That trust will help you to get, you know, your next new client or your increase your share of wallet. And hence, I think communities, that's why we started the whole con- uh-
00:31:05,468 --> 00:31:05,578 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah, yeah
00:31:05,578 --> 00:31:22,328 [Payal Raina]
... conversation, it's- it's going the whole circle back now, is are far more important ever than before because that's where the decisions are happening. That's where people are, like, already making decisions. Um, and just one quickly contrast and comparison, you made a point-
00:31:22,328 --> 00:31:22,648 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:31:22,648 --> 00:31:29,668 [Payal Raina]
... traditional marketing, Alex. So traditional marketing was more of, for me, it was one-sided.
00:31:29,668 --> 00:31:29,678 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:31:29,678 --> 00:31:40,628 [Payal Raina]
And the idea was to educate our customers, our economic buyers. Now, this is a modern marketing, whether it's AI-driven, demand gen driven, however you wanna kind of, you know, package it, where
00:31:41,688 --> 00:31:46,808 [Payal Raina]
more than 70% of your customers have already researched about you.
00:31:46,808 --> 00:31:47,148 [Alex Shevelenko]
Right.
00:31:47,148 --> 00:31:58,788 [Payal Raina]
So if I've got a need and, you know, if they're looking for a, a digital, like, you know, a, a platform like yourself, they've... I bet they've already gone in, and they know more about you than you do consider. So-
00:31:58,788 --> 00:31:58,908 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:31:58,908 --> 00:32:16,778 [Payal Raina]
... I think those traditional one-way bombarding with the emails, et cetera, educating them, they've already go- they know already. And then whatever's left over, they're sitting in these communities, and they are now validating that, "Oh, we are actually looking for, I don't know, an automation platform. Is that the right one?"
00:32:16,778 --> 00:32:16,808 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm.
00:32:16,808 --> 00:32:28,548 [Payal Raina]
So, so I, I guess what I'm saying is the, the, the buyers in nowadays are far more intelligent. They are far more digital savvy. They've got all these Clods of the world, Gemini-
00:32:28,548 --> 00:32:31,118 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah, doing all the work for them. Yeah, yeah
00:32:31,118 --> 00:32:40,628 [Payal Raina]
... I, I guess the biggest challenge, and that's the note I wanna think you to leave on, is for marketers needs to be thinking about servicing machine customers.
00:32:40,628 --> 00:32:40,788 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yes.
00:32:40,788 --> 00:32:41,468 [Payal Raina]
It's less about-
00:32:41,468 --> 00:32:48,808 [Alex Shevelenko]
You have two audiences. You have the, you have the Perplexities and the, the Clods, and then you have the humans
00:32:49,848 --> 00:32:55,288 [Alex Shevelenko]
digesting whatever those customers process. Is that, is that a way to think about it?
00:32:55,288 --> 00:33:13,368 [Payal Raina]
E- e- yes, yes. It is. Uh, but just another string to add to it, what I was thinking about ma- machine customers, what I meant was that now if, if Paul needs to go out and shop for an insurance product, I might just have a AI agent who's shopping on my behalf-
00:33:13,368 --> 00:33:13,597 [Alex Shevelenko]
Oh, I see
00:33:13,597 --> 00:33:16,648 [Payal Raina]
... and coming in and presenting to me top three choices about-
00:33:16,648 --> 00:33:17,088 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yes
00:33:17,088 --> 00:33:27,228 [Payal Raina]
... what should I even go. So that means as an insurance provider now, they need to be servicing that machine customer, which is the AI concierge or bot-
00:33:27,228 --> 00:33:27,358 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah, yeah
00:33:27,358 --> 00:33:30,428 [Payal Raina]
... who's actually shopping on behalf of the actual buyer.
00:33:30,428 --> 00:33:30,488 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:33:30,488 --> 00:33:46,528 [Payal Raina]
So they don't, they don't, they don't think about trust. They are not driven by emotions. They're very driven by precision of algorithms. And, um, so, so yeah, so you're right. There is that... And I think that's where we are, um, at a cusp of where we're focusing on the human buyers-
00:33:46,528 --> 00:33:46,538 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:33:46,538 --> 00:34:01,928 [Payal Raina]
... and absolutely important, but these machine buyers are very s- very gradually and quickly coming into this workforce. And, um, uh, and yeah, if, if you're not serving them well, then we probably have no chance being on the top three on the list.
00:34:02,048 --> 00:34:48,448 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah. It's really interesting you say that. This is exactly the tension that we experience as well in, in our universe. So, like, think of a, of a large document, right? So that's, let's say a PDF for, for, for crying out loud, as you know. Uh, we, we have a special proclivity of, of, of working on these. So let's say you have this 80-page report. So, right, in, like, default right now, it's gated somewhere. Nobody sees it, ex- you know, even the person that fills out the form and puts their name and puts their work, number of people, project, whatever, they fill it out. They, they kind of are intrigued enough to go through all these hurdles. They sign up to the report, uh, and then, "Oh, yeah, yeah, wait. We'll come to you in your mailbox in five minutes." And, you know,
00:34:49,648 --> 00:35:24,768 [Alex Shevelenko]
most likely they'll never get to it, despite the initial interest. If they get to it, they open it on their phone, you know, it downloads and, you know, like, they're shoved with 80 pages wall of text that's not easy to navigate. And so they, so nobody... Like, not humans, not machines really read that most likely as a default. Like, that's maybe legacy, uh, content, but it does build a perception that somebody has written the report. They know about it, so there's some expertise, maybe hangover of expertise that comes from that.
00:35:24,768 --> 00:35:25,047 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:35:25,048 --> 00:36:01,258 [Alex Shevelenko]
And then let's imagine the f- the modern scenario or the future scenario where that report is now optimized both for the human to, to experience it, to kind of dig into it. They could navigate to the relevant things. It feels modern. It could... They could talk to it. They could, you know, find, you know, either through nonlinear navigation or through chat, um, a bil- you know, the exact nugget they're looking for, and it comes to them in real time. They don't need to wait for it. So that's a win. Uh, but in parallel, there is a machine buyer-
00:36:01,258 --> 00:36:01,698 [Payal Raina]
Mm-hmm
00:36:01,698 --> 00:36:43,108 [Alex Shevelenko]
... uh, that, that can actually now read it, and those, those historically don't know how to index PDFs really well, just like the SEO teams, they're not at, as good at indexing PDFs. This one, because it has structure, metadata, can actually... Ev- every page is, has its own URL/index, how it fits in. It could actually read it, get to the interesting things, and ingest that, um, that information into the buying process, thus getting an unfair advantage to the provider of that report. And so at the end, you're building trust and information density, but you're making it human-friendly.
00:36:43,108 --> 00:36:44,208 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:36:44,208 --> 00:37:29,500 [Alex Shevelenko]
Uh, and as we know from Google, who gonna probably a lot of the AI is still copying many of the Google algorithms- They, they did something really interesting. At some point they started, uh, you know, adding algorithmic value, not just to the information, but to how friendly it is to the consumer of that information. As in, is this asset mobile readable? Is it, like, you, you know, is, is, does it feel like people will spend time on it? Do they spend time on it? And so eventually I think the, the buying agents will look at the information as one of the category, the quality of the information, but the quality of the experience for their human audience-
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:29,510 [Payal Raina]
Yeah
00:37:29,510 --> 00:38:17,760 [Alex Shevelenko]
... to go and validate it, I think that's gonna be more and more important. Because I'm not gonna trust the buyer, the algorithm that's gonna get me to some dumpy website, you know, that looks like my grandma built it in a basement in 1990s, even though it may have some information on there, right? Or a PDF that, you know, the, I would be ashamed of, you know, sharing as a, as a, as a modern, modern buying experience. So I, I don't... You know, what's your reaction to this dual challenge, right? Like the, the information, you know, com- thoroughness, trust, expertise, and then the human component, uh, working hand-in-hand, uh, to deliver a modern buying experience.
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:17,920 [Payal Raina]
Hm.
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:36,800 [Payal Raina]
Yeah, no, look, um, it, it was a nice kind of, you know, analogy. I loved it how you kind of put this together. And, and look, looking ahead and seeing what the future entails, it has to be a combination. You, you know, you can't do one or either, particularly where we are now i- in this era.
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:37,380 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:38:37,380 --> 00:38:55,040 [Payal Raina]
So it has to be a combination, as you rightly said, that you can't completely trust blindly the machines. Um, so there has to be that intervention. So it's, it's kind of for me using machines to do the legwork for you, and then, you know, bringing the human touch where you need-
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:55,190 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:38:55,190 --> 00:39:04,380 [Payal Raina]
... to take this key decision point. And so, um... And look, five years n- down the line, Alex, if you're having another podcast, we're doing the same recording, I'm sure, you know, world would be a-
00:39:04,380 --> 00:39:04,470 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:20,250 [Payal Raina]
... completely different place. But, um, I, I still feel it's still relevant. You need that. It's the, an experience. I love that terminology. Uh, and then, and it works very well, as you said in the beginning, like how can we cut through the noise? So it's not just-
00:39:20,250 --> 00:39:20,250 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:39:20,250 --> 00:40:01,490 [Payal Raina]
... you know, having the right data, having the right, you know, community. But everything needs to be, you know, packaged with the experience, and I think that's really important differentiator, whether you're working in, with a business, whether you're working with any organization or your peers, that experience that makes you feel that, um, you know, being, the having that trust, having that collaboration, giving that confidence, that, that visibility, um, you need. Um, and, and like you said, right? That, that, that trust with your documentation platform is to present those statistics to the, to the senior management level, to demonstrating that how they are future-proofing themselves-
00:40:01,490 --> 00:40:01,490 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:40:01,490 --> 00:40:30,920 [Payal Raina]
... from, um, you know, whatever AI might bring or those machine customers might bring. So I think it's, it's, it's a good way to kind of balance those things up. Um, but as I said, you know, um, it's a, yeah, few years down the line, let's see how it goes because the Generation Z is coming up, and they are the one who are, uh, you know, 10 years down the line, uh, I, I believe they're gonna be taking over about 40 to 50% of the workforce. So they are a very different [laughs] uh-
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,480 [Alex Shevelenko]
They're different animals. Yeah
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,040 [Payal Raina]
... very different animals or, um-
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:34,760 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah, yeah
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:45,420 [Payal Raina]
... yeah, so who knows? Like, again, talking about my, my, my 14-year-old or, you know, they are... For them it's less about in-person networking, but for them everything is digital. So they don't-
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:46,470 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:57,680 [Payal Raina]
... you know, talk maybe that much as we probably, you know, we wanted to do. So, but I'm excited. You know, it's an exciting phase where we are in, um, and I'm looking forward to see what the future brings for us.
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:25,750 [Alex Shevelenko]
Well, let's say somebody's listening to this and they're excited to add community-led growth as a pillar to their, to their strategy in whatever, maybe in, in FinTech, uh, dom- fin.tech marketing community or, or other communities. What would be your advice to people that are new to the community world? Or, or, you know, maybe vendors, for example. Like, where would you, uh, advise them to get started, you know, and, and
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,320 [Alex Shevelenko]
take,
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:39,069 [Alex Shevelenko]
take advantage of the shift and the, uh, entrepreneurial juices of yourself and your community members on building such a magnificent resource? Like, where, where would be the first step?
00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:47,590 [Payal Raina]
So the first step for me would be build your belongingness before selling.
00:41:47,590 --> 00:41:47,640 [Alex Shevelenko]
Hm.
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:48,040 [Payal Raina]
I think that's
00:41:49,080 --> 00:42:01,000 [Payal Raina]
very, very powerful because end of the day it's not about having those transactional relationship. Like, don't get me wrong, right? Everybody wants to join some community-
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:01,080 [Alex Shevelenko]
Hm
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,300 [Payal Raina]
... be at some place because they wanna get out of something at the back of it.
00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:05,360 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:24,110 [Payal Raina]
But unless you're prepared to give in, pay it forward, then that's probably not the right, you know, place for you. Because people will pick up, people will sense, and I think, um, I've got huge, uh, regards and respect to all our board members of the community, our members, everybody globally. They're coming in.
00:42:24,110 --> 00:42:24,200 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:36,820 [Payal Raina]
Um, Alex, you probably would be surprised, like when we had a European conference, the folks took days off from work. They were wearing volunteer T-shirt, and these people are running multi-million, billion dollar companies, are heading marketing or businesses.
00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:37,079 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:49,764 [Payal Raina]
And they're putting up the banners, et cetera. So it's about the sense of belongingness before selling. I think that for me is very important. Number two, create your peer-to-peer value.
00:42:49,764 --> 00:43:04,184 [Payal Raina]
What and how can I help you? Like, you know, when we were having this conversation about podcasts, and I think the first thing we both were saying, uh, you know, how, how can, um, you know, your podcast can help the community and let others know who are not aware we exist-
00:43:04,184 --> 00:43:04,354 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:43:04,354 --> 00:43:35,264 [Payal Raina]
... and that we have a safe home. And likewise, you know, all the amazing work you're doing with your, with your platform, um, you know, from a PDFs, like the old school to the new digital version. So bring the value, you know, create that value through discussions, through recommendations, through sharing, through mentorships, through shared collaboration, knowledge sharing. That's super key. And then, um, finally, I would say is focus on engagement and not just the audience size. You could be part of a-
00:43:35,264 --> 00:43:35,313 [Alex Shevelenko]
Mm
00:43:35,313 --> 00:43:39,574 [Payal Raina]
... one million big community, but if it's not engaged, if people don't know each other-
00:43:39,574 --> 00:43:39,574 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah
00:43:39,574 --> 00:43:50,864 [Payal Raina]
... if they're not talking. So I think the key metrics would be on participation, would be attendance. Um, and, uh, yeah, and, and I was talking to you about it feels like a reunion, right? When people-
00:43:50,864 --> 00:43:51,964 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah, yeah. That's a great feeling
00:43:51,964 --> 00:43:52,954 [Payal Raina]
... come together. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:52,954 --> 00:43:52,964 [Alex Shevelenko]
Yeah.
00:43:52,964 --> 00:44:23,864 [Payal Raina]
So I think, yeah, it's a combination of those. Anybody who's starting new, um, and, and of course, you know, our community, fintechmarketingcommunity.com, it's free for people to sign up. So, uh, whether you are in financial services, technology or fintech, you know, their marketing, business decision-maker, um, anyone who is looking to kind of, uh, help connect, learn and grow, we would welcome them to donate their time or their funds or their talent, however they wanna be part of the community.
00:44:23,864 --> 00:45:14,033 [Alex Shevelenko]
That's beautiful. Well, it takes a generous spirit of, a, a generous attitude towards giving to start something that you've done, in addition to holding a very demanding, you know, marketing leadership job yourself, where, uh, you know, as I was delighted to hear, but not surprised at all, you recently got a promotion as well. [laughs] That you're lifting... You're, you're kind of, you're lifting this, and it's sort of an expression of, of a spirit of giving and building together, and I think that's a beautiful thing as we start back in the beginning of the conversation, that you saw an opportunity to make a world, your professional world, a more meaningful, a more human-friendly, uh, place where you could meet professional goals and human goals at the same time.
00:45:14,033 --> 00:45:14,033 [Payal Raina]
Mm.
00:45:14,033 --> 00:46:19,484 [Alex Shevelenko]
And I would just encourage our community members, um, to think about that. That's very much in line, and those of you that are listening to this that are Relate to customers, this is our DNA. You know, you've chosen us because we don't just wanna help you create a document that, you know, transacts. We wanna, you know... That may be the end outcome of it, but it, we're, the first principle is you're building a relationship with your audience. You're having a human connection through a digital medium. Maybe you're in the room, maybe you're not in the room, but we're, you know, we're all about trying to create, uh, a meaningful human spark, um, at scale of a community across many countries and, and regions, or at scale of a single document. So I, I am salute you for your work, Payal. I, um, am a supporter of the community and, um, you know, proud to, to have you here. Uh, last thing, how can people find you personally as well as the community so that, um, they could support you?
00:46:21,184 --> 00:47:09,404 [Payal Raina]
Sure, of course. You know, uh, I am there on LinkedIn, so please, um, you know, check me out on LinkedIn and connect with me. So would be great to kind of know most of you and learn more about you and your, you know, challenges or opportunities, how we can support. And, um, and, and it's very simple. People can log into our website, uh, which is very peer-led, so it's www.fintechmarketingcommunity.com. So hope to see some of you, uh, on the community forum at events, uh, next one. Um, our next event is in New York on 3rd of June, uh, as part of New York Tech Week. So we are bringing all the community of North American peers together. So I hope to see some of your, you know, Alex yourself and your members and your clients, hopefully, uh, in June in New York.
00:47:11,244 --> 00:47:32,964 [Alex Shevelenko]
Uh, right on. The brand is back. I'm gonna, I'm gonna brand myself. I, I'm gonna put this on right now to be memorable, Basting Group. And the community is back. You know, we started as humans in building ourselves as communities, and I'm glad that you're bringing it back to the corporate and financial institution world. Payal, thank you so much for joining us.
00:47:32,964 --> 00:47:34,184 [Payal Raina]
Thank you so much for having me, Alex.