See show notes for this episode: S 02 | Ep 52 Miss Universe Natalie Glebova on True Self-Worth.
1:09 Alex Shevelenko: Welcome to a very unusual episode of Experience-focused Leaders!
1:14 We are going to talk to Natalie Glebova, who has won the crown of Miss Universe, but will share with us the messages of the inner journey that she is on, and I am personally super excited about this episode because I think.
1:33 this is the only one that my two daughters will actually pay attention to, from all our podcasts. They're kind of entering a pivotal age of 15 and 13, so Natalie, I'm counting on you to parlay some of the wisdom.
1:48 from your journey and what you share with your daughter onto at least that super important audience.
1:54 Welcome to the pod.
1:56 Natalie Glebova: Thank you so much, Alex.
1:57 It's such a pleasure to be here, and I'm personally very excited too.
2:01 Let's talk about everything.
2:04 Let's get into it.
2:05 Let's go.
2:06 Let's go, let's go right into the thick of things.
2:09 Alex Shevelenko: So you won.
2:11 You know, the ultimate form of external validation, Miss Universe.
2:17 And I guess what did they give to you, and what didn't they give to you?
2:23 Natalie Glebova: Hm, great question to start with, and definitely something that I am.
2:28 really trying to still process, and especially now 21 years later, I feel like the lessons are becoming more and more clear.
2:37 And I have really turned these lessons into programs to help people decondition themselves from external sources of validation, from beauty standards, from the objectification of women that this industry puts us through.
2:54 And, yeah, to be honest, what I learned was a lot.
3:00 I learned that in order for you to really find yourself, you have to sometimes go to the highest heights of the opposite direction in order to bounce back to really find yourself, because only through that disillusionment and breaking down of your own identity and your ego, and just realizing how sometimes dark this industry can be, this beauty industry.
3:28 will you really find your way back to yourself? And wow, has that taught me a lot, and we can get into that, absolutely, because you said that you have two young daughters, yes, teenagers.
3:41 Alex Shevelenko: How old are they?
3:42 Natalie Glebova: 13 and 15, and they've taken over the bathroom with the makeup, and they're going to be all embarrassed about this right now, but they're lovely, they're brilliant, and I do worry about what messages they're getting from the external universe.
4:14 And I found your journey and the book that you've written, Temple of Love, which we want to come back to, is particularly trustworthy because you've kind of gotten to this aim that a lot of us consciously or unconsciously are striving towards, right?
4:25 Being adored, admired, accepted, loved through some external lens, and my girls are, yeah, I can tell them all day long that I love you the way you are, but that's not the zeitgeist that society leaves them with.
4:43 And maybe it would be helpful for our audience to go a little bit through these ups and downs that you've experienced, and also let's dive into being ex-Soviet, and how that transition influences that.
4:59 That's a whole other thing, being born in the Soviet era.
5:02 I'm sure we've got a lot to uncover and unpack there, but let's first dive into the whole Miss Universe thing because yes, you win the crown.
5:11 Yes, you get the world telling you you're beautiful, but at the same time, it also comes at a cost.
5:16 It comes with judgment, it comes with comments, all kinds of comments, positive and negative.
5:22 So you feel like you cannot make a mistake, because if you make a mistake, all of a sudden, the praise stops and the criticism begins.
5:29 And that's when you really start to question your own self-worth.
5:33 So you're on the treadmill, basically.
5:35 You need to keep getting, it feels so good.
5:41 You don't want to stop.
5:42 You don't want to stop.
5:43 You get addicted to that external source of validation, and you begin to believe that that is what your identity becomes now.
5:51 And anytime the praise stops, anytime that you hear negative comments, what do you think happens to your identity and your idea of self-worth?
6:03 Not only that, but the standards of beauty that we are all, as beauty queens and as women, held up towards.
6:12 You know, it really leaves us always craving more perfection, more fashion, more makeup, more procedures.
6:22 And I did fall into that trap as well, chasing that perfection that doesn't actually exist, because no matter how many procedures you do, no matter what you change about yourself, if you don't feel beautiful on the inside, you're not going to feel beautiful.
6:35 In fact, it's just going to keep taking you further and further away.
6:38 Alex Shevelenko: Further, there's a gap, right?
6:39 There's a gap.
6:40 Natalie Glebova: Well yeah, because basically wherever you go there you are, it's kind of like that.
6:47 So if you take yourself to the most beautiful place in the world with the most procedures and with the most everything, but your own identity is still dragging behind, that gap—
7:00 Alex Shevelenko: Right.
7:01 Natalie Glebova: And so for that reason, I feel that this industry can be extremely dangerous to a woman's self-esteem, a sense of identity, and ultimately to her mental health.
7:11 And so would I advise it to my daughter?
7:14 Natalie Glebova: Only if she wants to, but I am going to have to do a lot of inner work with her before she decides to participate in anything, modeling or beauty pageants, or even acting. She's really into dance right now, and even dancing, I can see already that beauty is so important, the way that you dress, the way that you move—there's a lot of objectification in all of these industries.
7:41 Alex Shevelenko: So, and I just, just for our audience, because I think that there's probably some men in the audience as well, and I want to kind of throw out like my own reflection, so obviously I don't have the beauty queen problem that you do, but for identity, like, for example, an entrepreneur, right?
8:06 There's a status symbol about how much you raise capital, and from how prestigious are these firms.
8:13 For the overachievers that are more academically inclined, there is like, where did you go to high school, to university, to business school, and you start kind of giving yourself this identity business: well, I'm the smart one, or I'm the creative one, or I'm that one.
8:34 So, I think Natalie, the same thing, this is the same thing, it's just a different, right?
8:41 I call it different mirrors.
8:41 I call them the mirrors of conditioning, right?
8:43 So yours is an achievement mirror, mine was the appearance, a beauty mirror, right?
8:47 And I think obviously we all have, given the society that we live in, an appearance mirror, but I think if we decide that we're not going to win on the appearance mirror—because we all want to win somehow—we'll kind of just over-index.
8:58 I was listening to your TED Talk, and it kind of made me reflect, cause you were describing, you know, maybe you could get into that a little bit on how you didn't think of yourself as a beautiful woman until in high school, and then somebody—you saw yourself through somebody's eyes as a Bond girl, and another mirror, yeah.
9:31 So maybe you dive into that, and I'll connect it to a little bit of my own journey that probably a lot of folks in our community feel about or like around their identity.
9:39 So tell us about that kind of step of how do you see yourself through the eyes of others.
9:46 Natalie Glebova: Hm.
9:48 So the original mirror of conditioning that I was faced with was this kind of love and relationships early on, because when I came from Russia to Canada, my identity really took a big hit because I all of a sudden was an immigrant from a country that people didn't understand, and they felt that there was just something different about me, something perhaps... or maybe I was projecting.
10:17 I felt like I was inferior to the Canadian boys.
10:22 And of course the comments didn't help, you know, you always get, like I said in my TED Talk, you're a communist, do you like vodka, is it always winter in Russia?
10:36 And it just, at that young age—I came when I was 13 to Canada—it really took... my identity took a hit.
10:42 And so, of course, when I was feeling so inferior, the moment somebody paid attention to me and saw me through the eyes of, "Oh, you're a Bond girl, because you're from Russia," and you're kind of like... the guy that I dated was a James Bond movie fan, so for him, Russian women were blonde girls, so I took that image and I embraced it as my own.
11:07 I internalized it.
11:09 And from that, it just kept going on and on because I didn't fully develop my own identity.
11:16 So I had to rely on the identity that somebody else was reflecting back to me.
11:20 And then came the Miss Universe crown, which of course then made me feel like, OK, now it's all about beauty.
11:25 Now the most beautiful woman in the world is the title, so I cannot be anything less than beautiful.
11:31 Alex Shevelenko: Right, so the chase became the centerpiece because the other part was a little bit like underdeveloped, sort of, so to speak.
11:39 This became the centerpiece of who you are, right?
11:41 Natalie Glebova: The foundation of who I thought I was.
11:45 And not only until years later when I started actually asking the questions of what am I chasing really?
11:52 I'm chasing outer beauty.
11:53 I'm chasing external success as well, like you.
11:57 Success in business, making sure that I have a certain lifestyle or have a certain amount of possessions that you keep chasing, and yet you understand that, oh, you would think that the more you have, the happier you are, but it doesn't happen that way.
12:13 And so at some point, you either continue down that road or you start inwards, and you start to discover who you are and what all of this means.
12:22 And this is what I call returning back to your inner mirror to find yourself, to find your own authentic voice, your own authentic identity, your inner beauty, obviously, that is beyond the titles, beyond the achievements, and beyond what somebody else can project back to you.
12:41 Alex Shevelenko: It's so fascinating.
12:42 So what you're saying is you're kind of on this search and you say, "If I do this, if I am that, then I will be enough.
12:52 I'll finally have all my dreams come true if I'm married, if I am a mom, if I am a dad, if I have this property, I hit that milestone."
13:04 Once I hit that milestone, then everything will fall into this place.
13:08 And then you just hit the milestone, like in some ways the ultimate milestone in terms of external validation, but it's interesting thing is it didn't feel like that, like for a while, you were caught in that milestone.
13:23 So there is something that you're describing, right?
13:25 So there is this... it's not like, "Oh, I'm there and I feel hollow inside right away."
13:29 There's this process.
13:33 And I think at least in my journey, I think you hit that process several times to really start getting serious, because you're like, "Oh wait, I hit that, that doesn't feel well enough, and then I hit that..." and then you just start... once you start seeing the pattern, it's a lot more obvious.
13:50 What's been your journey in terms of similar to you, yeah?
13:57 Natalie Glebova: I, similar to you, I think I hit some of those turning points several times and didn't actually listen to the signals of what my soul was trying to whisper to me, and then continued on the same trajectory until things become painful.
14:20 And usually this is where we experience the dark night of the soul, right?
14:25 When things crumble, when your identity collapses, when you don't even understand why you're doing things anymore, and you realize that when you're misaligned to your true purpose and you're not doing things that your soul actually wants you to do, then you're just going to be miserable, and you're going to be waking up every single day thinking, "What's wrong?"
14:45 Natalie Glebova: Do I need more?
14:47 And then the rat race continues.
14:49 So at some point, yes, if you are aware enough, at some point you will just say, enough is enough.
14:57 It's time to dig deeper.
14:58 And so I went into a bit of a spiritual journey.
15:02 It started with reading some classic new age spirituality books, you know, The Power of Now and Reality Transsurfing.
15:12 I can't remember what some of the other ones are.
15:14 I read some of the Dalai Lama books, The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer.
15:20 Alex Shevelenko: Michael Singer, great, yeah, so all of these books were really just the catalyst for opening me up to this whole idea of, oh wait, so there is more to this world than just the material world and just what we see, and there's a whole world of energy and there's consciousness and there's the self, you know, the real higher self, not just the ego self that we project to the world.
15:44 Natalie Glebova: And then after I read the books, I conceptually understood them, but I wanted to experience it for myself, because you can conceptually understand something, but that doesn't mean that—
15:54 Alex Shevelenko: Yeah, it's so funny.
15:55 I was just talking to my coach, and I actually interviewed him on the podcast for fun, and I was listening to that, but I don't normally listen to the former ones.
16:04 I was listening to that, it was about 6 months ago, and I was like, I was asking some pretty clever questions.
16:09 I didn't sound like a total idiot, like I was intellectually engaging with him on an intellectual level.
16:14 But as you're doing your inner work, you know the gap between where you were at that point and where you are now.
16:25 Generally, you tend to go forward, and so I think it just confirmed this realization that sounding smart and intellectually clear about some particular topic is not the same thing as internalizing it, feeling it, living it.
16:51 Yeah, so you can listen to—I've listened to Michael Singer a while ago, right, and it left a mark, but then you kind of need to go back and relisten from a different position.
16:54 Natalie Glebova: Absolutely.
16:54 So these experiences, these books, these talks, they all plant seeds, right, little seeds that might not be ready to sprout.
17:01 I actually read The Power of Now.
17:03 Someone gave me The Power of Now book when I was Miss Universe.
17:08 And I read it, and well, I tried to read it at 23 years old, didn't even... I couldn't even process it.
17:16 Then I started reading it again 10 years later in my early 30s, and all of a sudden it clicked.
17:22 But it still didn't give me the lived experience.
17:25 So off I went to explore on my own, and I did some meditation retreats.
17:31 I started practicing yoga.
17:34 I dabbled into plant medicines, went on an ayahuasca retreat, right?
17:39 And so little by little I started gathering bits and pieces of information.
17:45 Of lived experience information, things I can actually say, "Oh, now I confirm that indeed there is this whole other world that I was completely oblivious to."
17:57 And now that it's opened up to me, I can never go back to the same old me.
18:01 So in a way, it's wonderful to have these experiences of small awakenings here and there, but it can also be very uncomfortable.
18:09 And once you see the truth, once you expand your consciousness, sometimes it can be a little bit uncomfortable, and I won't lie.
18:20 I won't lie to you.
18:21 I don't think that happiness is there in expanding your awareness.
18:27 It just makes you understand that there's a world of polarity, and it helps you to regulate your nervous system more.
18:37 And I think it also helps you to not fall into despair when things go wrong.
18:40 It helps you to just smooth out the edges of your human experience, because now you realize that this polarity... but when you watch it from a non-judgmental, non-dualistic place, all of a sudden it just becomes a little bit easier to manage and go through the ups and downs of life.
19:03 Alex Shevelenko: But that does not necessarily mean that you're going to be all of a sudden happy and everything's flowing, showering down abundance.
19:08 So you're becoming an observer.
19:08 What I hear is you're observing, you have a little bit more of a distance, but it doesn't mean that meditation immediately results in all these abundant things.
19:21 So let's kind of go a little bit into the early stages, and this is why I think it's kind of important.
19:35 The older my children get, the more I start wearing the hat of a parent, the more I realize, even like an interaction now with my own parents, I'm noticing, "Oh wait, I picked that behavior up completely unconsciously, completely internalized it, and now I'm expecting that in my own interactions with my kids or with my partner, I am behaving maybe the same way that my parents were with me, also unconsciously, because it's just there, right?"
20:11 And it sort of became part of my identity without even reflecting on it.
20:17 Natalie Glebova: Yeah, so classic conditioning that we all get conditioned one way or another.
20:25 Alex Shevelenko: And I think there's two themes there.
20:29 One, I keep wanting to come back to the sort of Soviet kid, right?
20:38 And everybody has their own version of that, right?
20:38 Like, some have experienced that transition, and you were... how old were you when you moved to Canada?
20:45 Natalie Glebova: 13.
20:47 Alex Shevelenko: 13, so I was exactly that.
20:49 I was the tender age of 13, moved to the US from Ukraine.
20:53 Wrong clothes, wrong accent—like it was like Seattle, they really didn't know, just as in Canada, probably about the same understanding about the Soviet mindset at the time.
21:07 And so what was interesting in that journey is you're basically trying to fit in, and that becomes a really core part of your identity.
21:21 And in my case, it actually worked for a while, right?
21:21 You're making, you're achieving, you're getting some recognition, you're getting validation, you're fitting in, you're proving to your immigrant parents that they made the right decision.
21:34 It's all geared to become independent, so that's been great.
21:38 Alex Shevelenko: But then what is interesting is that that becomes a legacy of that transition of, "Oh, I need to make sure that I stand out somehow, that I get heard, that I don't get lost in this new society, that I kind of get my kudos." And I don't think I was that aware that that was like the big driver of the achievement, of sort of like dirty fuel.
22:07 So, at what point did you start noticing little things you picked up in the Soviet system where you couldn't express who you are, also because maybe of the society? What are the lessons from your childhood now that, as you're going through life, you're unpacking that, "Oh wait, that was my blind spot, and it worked for me at that time, and now it's no longer working"?
22:34 Natalie Glebova: Wow, such a great question, and thanks for sharing your story too.
22:38 I definitely think that seeking validation from my parents, particularly my mother, played a huge part because—God bless my parents—they wanted so badly for me to have a better future, and in the '90s in Russia, it was obviously a really bad place financially, the economy, safety, in every way that you can look at it.
23:05 And my parents always wanted to leave the country and always wanted us to have more opportunities and a better life.
23:13 So my mom really pushed me into sports. You know, I was a gymnast, a classical piano player, classically trained pianist, English lessons—even though I still didn't really speak much—and this was back in the Soviet Union.
23:30 Alex Shevelenko: Yes, back in... those same lessons did not work for me either.
23:37 I could relate. So they were preparing you, they wanted more for you, and you felt that pressure to please, probably.
23:48 Natalie Glebova: Absolutely. So she did it with the best possible intentions, and she drove me hard to achieve all of those things. You know, my school in Russia was... I think it was a special class that had extra math, and you know how math was so difficult back in the Soviet Union, because the level of mathematics... when I came to Canada, I was thinking, "We did this in grade 3," when I came in grade 8.
24:15 And so everything was just discipline and performance and excellence, and my childhood was focused on a lot of that. I think from that, I learned that I need to get that validation from my mother, particularly.
24:34 And it has affected my life in many ways because I still tend to seek approval from fans, from my partners, from friends, and of course still from my mother.
24:49 So, but I noticed it, and that's the thing: the moment you become aware of a pattern or some kind of trauma that you have faced, that's the moment where you have a choice in what you want to do with it.
25:05 And this is what my whole process of self-love is about, and I talk about it in my book Temple of Love.
25:14 First comes awareness, then comes setting an intention on what you want to do with it.
25:21 Then comes the action part—actually acting on that intention. So saying, "I want to change," or "I don't want to always seek approval anymore."
25:29 So what are the opportunities that I have to change myself, whether it's talk therapy, whether it's some kind of inner work, because there's so many amazing tools that we have.
25:42 Therapy is just one of them, but there are just hundreds of different tools that you can use to reprogram your mindset, to rewire those neural pathways, right?
25:54 And then after that, you really just need that belief—that's the final step: belief that you can surrender to the flow, having that intention, action, and then belief in yourself.
26:07 So this has worked for me my entire life. That's why I like this method of returning back to yourself and transforming yourself, because we're a work in progress.
26:21 Alex Shevelenko: Yeah, so that's the part that I find interesting.
26:24 I was reflecting on different stages in our journeys, right, and we kind of create these either performance-driven or external identities, or internal because we're not thinking about them. So maybe walk through a couple of identities that you've had, post Miss Universe and as you were on this journey.
26:51 To illustrate what I mean, I remember as an undergrad... you go through these decisions, right?
27:00 And so my one decision is that we came to the US, the Soviet thing is bad because of the economy, and anything Soviet is bad, so I was like, "I'm going to go the opposite of my parents, who are computer developer engineers, so I'm going to be..." What's the one thing you could do? Well, you could go into business, that's kind of the thing.
27:19 So I got into this great business program, and then I realized, "Well, I'm kind of smart, but I'm not as hardcore a business person as some of the other folks." They wanted to work at Goldman Sachs since they were 3 years old because their parents come from that world.
27:40 So what's my new identity?
27:40 Then the new identity is, "Well, I'm still the sort of Russian, Ukrainian intellectual, curious person."
27:47 And so I joined the literary society, and I said, "I'm going to be more intellectual than all the business people and more businessy than all the pseudo-intellectuals that are hanging out there."
27:57 And I was very happy with that. I remember thinking, "Good on me, I found my little shtick of identity."
28:05 And then it just keeps evolving and evolving, right?
28:08 And now, I think potentially being conscious is also a little bit of a hack, right?
28:14 It's dangerous because it could become a source of like, "Hey, I'm more spiritual than you are," right? Which your ego gets involved in, basically, and starts—
28:34 Alex Shevelenko: I've noticed that I need to be wary of... well, I need to meet people where they are, and I need to meet my family where they are, and I can't expect that everybody is going to be on the same journey at the same time, obviously. So, talk me through it—that's my little journey, right?
28:52 I'm curious if you have some milestones that you went through, where you've tried to reshape it, and then you can of course correct, and so on.
29:02 Natalie Glebova: Uh-huh. It's funny, we have a very similar trajectory in our life with the immigrant story, and also going into... both of my parents are also computer software engineers, and they pushed me towards university studies and IT, which I... I kind of said, "I'm not going to do computer programming," because I'm not the person to program.
29:25 My brain is not wired that way.
29:28 So I chose an IT management program, which is a business degree, but very quickly I realized that I'm just not a corporate girl. You know, this is going to be a long and painful wait for death if I'm going to end up working 9 to 5 in a corporate job.
29:47 And so Miss Universe kind of came at a very good time because I was looking to expand myself into the arts and into this industry of entertainment, because people have always told me, "Oh, you're beautiful, you're beautiful, you're a model."
30:04 So of course this created a sense and an identity of beauty in my mind. So, you know, I do consider myself lucky for winning that title, but of course, luck is always just as much as you can make of it, and the hard work obviously paid off as well.
30:19 But then, after the whirlwind of the whole Miss Universe started to wear off after several years—maybe 7, 8, 9, or 10 years—I started to again question that identity: "What do I want to be doing, and am I actually waking up every day doing something that fulfills my soul? Am I aligned with my mission?"
30:42 So I started a long journey back again to try to undo the whole beauty queen image, and I dabbled in a few things. You name it: I started DJing and I DJed for a while, I tried to be an entrepreneur with my own line of perfumes... what else did I do?
31:08 I went into yoga for a while, and kind of new age spirituality as well.
31:15 All of which, as you said, are again just your ego trying to find a comfortable place to say, "Oh, now I'm maybe better than before," or "Maybe I don't agree with this anymore, so I'm going to do something else." But it's still ego, right, at the end of the day.
31:34 And so that itself was a really interesting process of trying to see myself in all of these roles.
31:41 And then of course I got married and had a child, so the identity became that of a mom and a wife. And then when that marriage ultimately failed and didn't work out, there goes the identity again—the crumbling of everything.
31:58 So it's been a journey, to say the least, of trying to define myself, only to really discover that no matter what you do, if you don't have a strong sense of self, of who you are beyond the labels that we can give to ourselves, it doesn't matter.
32:18 It really doesn't matter what you do or what you try, you're always going to come up unhappy and unfulfilled at the end of the day.
32:24 So that inner work—I must say I have done a lot of it myself, and I have found that to be my purpose, because the more I heal and recognize myself on that internal side, on that authentic self level, the more I feel like I want to share it with the world.
32:49 And I don't want to call myself a healer or a teacher. I'm done with labels—of course, for Instagram and for our profiles in public spaces, we need to have these labels—but at the end of the day, I just want to talk to young women who are on a similar path to mine.
33:03 And hopefully I can make their path a little bit easier, so they don't have to repeat the same mistakes I did, and so that they can really just find that joy, happiness, and inner beauty inside sooner.
33:16 Alex Shevelenko: So let's fast forward 30 years from now. What do you want the world to know about Natalie?
33:29 Natalie Glebova: Mhm. I want the world to know... I guess... well, because in Thailand, it's very interesting. I live in Thailand, right, for the past 20 years. And in Thailand, beauty queens and this image of the beauty queen are so revered and put up on a pedestal that I have also come in contact with people who put me on this pedestal because of my appearance or because of the title, because they think this is just the ultimate form of...
34:14 Alex Shevelenko: And it's not like all the Miss Universes have moved to Thailand as well, so it's sort of a sign that you're embracing the Thai culture and—
34:25 Natalie Glebova: Absolutely, I have a beautiful love affair with Thai people and with Thailand because there's a mutual love, respect, and admiration.
34:32 Yeah, but I guess what a lot of people see me as is that I am somehow different, and that I'm maybe not just a regular human being who is like them. And believe me, in other countries, people couldn't care less. If I go back to Canada, it's like, "Miss Universe, what? Who cares?"
34:53 So I get it, but I just really want people in 30 years to understand that I was a regular human being who had similar patterns from childhood, from my own generational traumas, like everyone has, right? And I had to go through my own healing journey.
35:17 It was not a perfect life at all, by any means, because sometimes people will comment and say, "Oh well, it must be nice for you to be beautiful, rich, and famous," and it really is not the case. We all go through ups and downs, and I have just as many problems as someone else, if not more.
35:39 Alex Shevelenko: Right. Well, and it sounds like it's so interesting that back to the sort of childhood thing... if a lot of our formative patterns and identities are shaped from when we're 2 to 13 years old, and then the immigration has its own thing, I would imagine that a lot of your inner monologue is shaped much more by that than...
36:10 Alex Shevelenko: By whatever happened afterwards, because it certainly feels like that, you know, once you become aware, you kind of realize how important that little kid, little Natalie is, and what you're saying is that you're that and then you're a human being, you go to the bathroom, you have all the usual physical needs that all of us have, and internal issues, internal traumas and patterns and things that I'm unconscious of. And I want people to know, hopefully, as I go through my spiritual journey and my own healing journey, I'm going to do the best that I can to put it out there for the public on my social media platforms, but also through my work with the women that I work with.
37:03 And so I really want the world in 30 years to see that, OK, she's done her inner work, and that's what it takes, because if you're just going to distract yourself with scrolling or whatever substance of choice you have, or relationships, or just completely escaping doing the inner work, there's only one trajectory your life is going to take, which is miserable and probably manifest itself in some physical health ailments and mental problems and midlife crisis and what have you. And I think it is very important to do this inner work, so I want people to see that you shouldn't be afraid of it.
37:50 I am in the public eye, and I'm not afraid of sharing it.
37:54 This is... I talk about this on social media all the time about all the work that I'm doing.
37:59 Alex Shevelenko: Got it. So, does that drive an extra sense of accountability for you, that you're out there talking about your journey, or does it put more pressure?
38:12 How does it feel when you don't live up to your own expectations and whatever you're putting out there?
38:20 Natalie Glebova: I mean, I'm, again, I'm a human being.
38:22 I'm going to make mistakes.
38:23 I'm going to fall short, I'm going to fail, and that can only make me seem more human. If I'm so perfect and I talk about inner healing and all the spiritual journey, that actually puts me further away—it distances you.
38:38 Alex Shevelenko: Exactly.
38:39 Natalie Glebova: But if I am a real person who says, "You know what, I messed up," or "You know what, I had a terrible day, I had another failed relationship, or I got into a depression for a while," then it's OK.
38:50 And yes, there is an accountability for it, but in a positive way, because then I feel like it's my duty.
38:58 I was given this title for a reason, right?
39:00 And I do have an audience for a reason.
39:03 So it is my duty now, and if I don't do this duty, then I would have wasted this gift and this blessing.
39:11 Alex Shevelenko: Got it. So, for you, if I hear this correctly, you're basically, "Hey, I've been blessed."
39:21 It was great looks and communication skills and articulateness and whatnot—like we could go through the list—but I've been blessed.
39:35 And I'm not trying to butter you up, but I'm just trying to do... to channel it so we could all take something away, because all of us have our own blessing, right?
39:44 Sometimes the hardships are the blessing because we survived them and became stronger.
39:52 Sometimes there are gifts that are more like maybe easy, but we know there's a hidden side to them, right?
40:00 Like beauty.
40:02 And your thing is, "I have this gift."
40:04 And what I'm hearing is because a lot of your audience and clients in coaching are women, young women, they are all like, "Oh, you know, if I spend $10,000 per year on fashion and beauty products, and then another thing on various procedures, I'm going to be happy, keep my relationship, feel good about myself," blah blah blah.
40:36 Then your role is to say, "Well, I got that.
40:46 I look great, I have that, but that's not what really matters in my journey."
40:53 And in fact, there are some challenges to overcome from that because that's a false god, so to speak.
41:00 It's kind of like the golden calf in our modern society that you start going after.
41:12 Is that... am I getting that right, that that's the kind of gift and challenge that comes with it?
41:18 Natalie Glebova: OK, yeah, you got it, you got it.
41:20 And that is my main message to women who are seeking that external source of validation, who think that winning a title or winning a crown is going to not only give them that validation, but also a lot of them actually are seeking love.
41:36 And so they think that if they win, they will be more desirable.
41:41 They will have more opportunity to marry a wealthier man and set their life up, because I see that—I also went through that, right?
41:52 And I've been in this industry, and I've also thought that, yes, OK, now that I have this title, I can get whoever I want.
42:01 Which, believe me, if you end up only attracting the equivalent of how far you've allowed yourself to heal, you're going to attract that.
42:13 You're going to attract the people who are shallow, basically, because if you're shallow, you're going to get shallow.
42:25 Alex Shevelenko: But could that be like an "ignorance is bliss" type of thing, for some time?
42:36 Natalie Glebova: Sometimes, yes, but what I'm trying to say is that no matter what you achieve in your life, your patterns from childhood, your traumas, and your conditioning are going to dictate who you're going to attract into your life, because everybody who comes in is ultimately a mirror for our inner journey and also the places that trigger us, the places where we need to work on still.
43:08 And so unfortunately, we cannot escape our past.
43:11 And I'm still on my journey, believe me, big time, still continuing to discover more and more about myself every single day.
43:20 Alex Shevelenko: Well, that's sort of one question that I had when I was listening to your TEDx—which I, by the way, really recommend for folks to check out, as well as the book.
43:35 You said something that I wanted to push on a little bit, and it was along the lines of like, you need to work on yourself first, and then you can bring that to the relationship later, right?
43:50 So which I totally understand the sequencing, but the challenge that I would throw out there is, I think if, yes, if you work on yourself and you kind of live this sort of hermit life and don't have any external challenges, your growth could be more limited.
43:17 You still have to deal with yourself, and that's important, but sometimes the triggers that come from the external world are the sort of gifts that help you unlock really much more about what's really going on.
44:38 And that's at least certainly been my experience, is that, yeah, I could go deep and read something and analyze it till the cows come home and get maybe really clear insight, and then a little interaction with the external world which shakes up my nervous system actually pushes the buttons, right?
44:58 And this could be... this doesn't have to be your romantic relationship, this could be work, right?
45:03 This could be family.
45:05 This is all sorts of people challenging your authority, people challenging your point of view, people challenging—
45:15 Alex Shevelenko: Your identity, right?
45:17 Particular identity is the big one, whatever it is. So, to me, there's just striking the balance, right?
45:28 Like you kind of need to be inside yourself, but if you isolate yourself from the real world, your impact is going to be limited.
45:37 What is your thought on that?
45:38 Natalie Glebova: I 100% agree, and when I say that you do your inner work first and then you're ready to bring all of that amazingness and awesomeness that you've made yourself to be into a relationship, that's only half the battle. Because you heal first by yourself, and then you apply it and you heal through love, through experience, and through actual interaction with the world, but one has to happen before the other.
46:07 Alex Shevelenko: So it's kind of a loop.
46:08 It's basically a little bit of healing, get it out there—
46:12 Natalie Glebova: Yeah, feed it back, reheal, get it out... and it's the sort of constant loop. Exactly, that's how we learn, that's how we grow, that's how we evolve and continue our development, because we do need to come back inwards to remember who we are, reconnect to our inner voice, inner beauty, inner self to decondition and say, "Oh, the things that I thought were success and beauty, that's not actually what it is," and you discover what that is.
46:43 And then with all of those newfound realizations and insights and downloads and embodiment that you do, that's when you go out into the world, interact with people, and see if there are still triggers, if there are still places to work on, because people will point them out to you.
47:00 As I said, we're all mirrors of each other, and yes, then you go back and you do some more work.
47:08 But it never ends, unfortunately—or fortunately, I don't know.
47:12 Alex Shevelenko: My sense is it's fortunate, right, because it keeps it interesting.
47:16 Because it would be kind of boring to be perfect in some ways, right?
47:20 Well, it'd be good for a little bit, right?
47:23 And then we'd have to find the polarity and duality anyway, because how do you know what's light without knowing dark?
47:32 How do you know what's good without knowing what's bad?
47:35 Natalie Glebova: Absolutely, and you know, it's back to identities.
47:41 Alex Shevelenko: I think it's really relevant right now, given what's going on, but when you look at Greek history, they said the Greeks didn't think of themselves as Greeks until they encountered Persians, and then they started having a much stronger Greek identity.
48:02 So I think part of it is you need this duality, as much as we don't want it. You know, we're kind of aiming for non-dualism—it's what you're describing, where you feel you're connected to everybody, but those are moments, right?
48:18 Those are minutes. They're blissful, they're amazing, that's when you're in nature, probably having your White Lotus moment in Thailand or whatever, looking at somebody and seeing the human underneath.
48:37 But then there are moments when you're triggered, there's this tension, and so...
48:42 Natalie Glebova: "Oh, OK, I need... there's something here." This is the playground, Earth and this three-dimensional world that we're experiencing. This is the playground for us to experience everything, to learn.
48:55 They say Earth is the toughest school, right? I personally believe that we chose to be here as part of our soul's evolution.
49:04 I mean, we can get into all the spiritual stuff, but I think that's not the time. But it's very good that you brought that up. It's a good point.
49:12 Alex Shevelenko: Well, so let me... let's get a little out of the woo-woo and more into the practical things.
49:17 So, Natalie is triggered, or one of your clients is triggered, right?
49:21 There's a trigger, you get defensive, or feel bad about yourself, get into some bad habits—raiding the fridge at night for some sugary stuff, or escaping into a doom-scroll, or whatever the fix is. We all have our fixes.
49:41 How do you help your clients get themselves out of that? Because it's sort of like... you almost can see that eventually you go low and then you get out. When you hit real low, you can get back out, right?
50:00 You kind of hit the wall of feeling bad about yourself and escaping, and then you get out. But wouldn't it be nicer if we don't have to hit the low all the time, and find a way to recover faster?
50:16 Natalie Glebova: It would be nice, but unfortunately the only way out is through it. Have you heard this expression?
50:19 Alex Shevelenko: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, and I'm not sure I believe it... so let's dive into it.
50:25 I'm not convinced, and the reason I'm not convinced is I think there's obviously acceptance, but I do think athletes and people in high-performance roles, and doctors doing emergency room surgery, they somehow build in more resilience into the way they operate to not go and hide in the cocoon of self-loathing, hit the low, and then recover.
51:05 So how do people that are highly functioning—which I would say most of the audience here is kind of like achievers, highly functioning—they... but they probably could get there faster and recover faster, recover more wholly. How would they do this?
51:27 Natalie Glebova: Well, I think a lot of high achievers end up using exactly that—whatever it is that they do—as an escape as well. Get lost in your work, work harder, push harder, another day grinding away, right?
51:51 So that in itself can become almost like a substance that they get addicted to that keeps them further away from that inner journey.
51:57 That's why I'm saying that no matter what, you're going to have to be faced with it at some point, whether you're a high-performing athlete or an emergency room doctor or whoever.
52:12 If you disconnect from yourself, eventually you will be faced with that dark night of the soul. At least that's from what I've seen and read and talked to people about. Have you had your dark night of the soul?
52:30 Alex Shevelenko: I don't know, I definitely had moments where, like what you described—maybe nothing as accomplished as Miss Universe type of thing—and then realizing it was not as fulfilling, but I do remember there are distinct moments when you kind of achieve a sort of...
52:56 Alex Shevelenko: I was living in London, my company just had an exit.
52:59 We just had a beautiful wedding with my wife.
53:03 My wife was French.
53:04 I love French culture, so it was like the religious beliefs aligned.
53:12 It was just... we had a baby girl, she was healthy, and it kind of seemed like, "Oh my God, I really hit the jackpot," right? That was just like that dream that a 12-year-old Soviet kid would have—it was like check, check, check, check, check, check, check.
53:35 And then, but we were fighting with my wife, for example, right, for stupid stuff that we weren't aware of, right?
53:38 And we were stressed out about being young parents.
53:42 Natalie Glebova: The biggest teachers, right? Again, mirrors reflecting back to each other where we need to work.
53:48 Alex Shevelenko: Yeah, yeah, so that was... and it started the process. And I did something called the Hoffman Process, which is a sort of retreat-style experience, so it started it, but I don't think we're done, right?
54:01 And certainly, like entrepreneurial pursuits, they hit you because there's a lot of identity that's wrapped up into whether you're succeeding or failing, and you kind of start measuring yourself externally.
54:15 So for me, there's things... but what I would say, Natalie, and this is where I'm trying to pull us, is like, OK, we will have dark moments.
54:28 But I think we don't need to have as many of them and as frequently, and we could recover faster from them.
54:38 Yes, and we don't need to do as much damage to ourselves or to others, more importantly, in the process of our own things, right?
54:47 So that's sort of where... what are some practical tools, right?
54:51 Is it like, "OK, do I go take my 5 minutes and meditate right before I overreact when my kids are doing something, or something is not going my way, or the email gives me a trigger and I'm like, I can write a nasty email back or I could let it flow through"?
55:08 So these are the types of things that I'm curious about—what's your go-to list?
55:15 Natalie Glebova: Exactly. That's what I want to start with myself, because what I teach and practice with my students is partially also what I do myself.
55:30 My own lifestyle is... I value and I prioritize things like yoga, breathwork, mindfulness, being with nature.
55:40 Taking time away from social media—like really long breaks.
55:45 Alex Shevelenko: Like how long, how long?
55:47 Natalie Glebova: Sometimes I go for months, which is not good for my business, but it's good for myself, for my sanity.
55:53 So I do a regular dopamine detox.
55:58 Anything that provides those constant external dopamine hits, you need to become very, very aware of, and then learn to sit in the discomfort of your own silence and your own stillness until that dopamine addiction starts to settle down a little bit.
56:23 So this one has been working for me, because I noticed the more I'm out there on social media—scrolling or comparing myself, or checking likes or comments and getting wrapped up into "What did they say about me, about my latest reel?"—the more I notice that I start getting into looping negative thoughts, right?
56:44 Alex Shevelenko: "Did this person whose opinion I care about like my post?" type of thing. And that's a rabbit hole, is what you're saying, where you need to catch your desire to reach for the phone and sit with that and look—
57:05 Natalie Glebova: "Not today, not now." You breathe.
57:09 This—and the breathwork—is what I teach most often to my clients, because you can regulate your nervous system with your breath, and when you regulate your nervous system, you regulate also your mind and you regulate your life.
57:26 And we hardly ever pay attention to our breath in our daily life, but breath is the foundation of our life. Without breath, we can't even live for a few minutes.
57:35 So there's all these different tactics. I still think that breathwork for me works wonders.
57:41 There's also ice baths and cold therapy that work wonders for some people. Personally, it doesn't work for me. There's fasting—
57:52 Alex Shevelenko: You're not real Russians then, that's it! That's it, kicking you out of that!
57:58 So, but breathwork... let's go to breathwork.
58:01 Have you, in the course of this conversation, or right before it, were you breathing? Were you consciously doing breathwork?
58:14 Natalie Glebova: So the more you do exercises like you go to the gym to train a muscle, the more you train yourself to bring your attention back to the breath, the more it becomes second nature and autopilot, where even in the middle of a conversation, you will come back to your conscious breathing.
58:32 I always come back to the feeling in my hands, so.
58:36 If I get stuck in these looping thoughts or get too much into the mental space, I get away from the present moment very quickly.
58:46 So when I come back to my breath and my body, this is actually the only thing that we can say is present, because anything in the mind is either past or future.
58:55 You can't think about the present moment; you can only experience the present moment.
58:59 So when you are in your body and your breath, you are actually experiencing the present moment.
59:03 So you don't even have to think about... like, how do you know you have hands right now?
59:08 You're not looking at them, but you feel them, you sense them.
59:11 There are some subtle sensations that are letting you know that you have hands, right?
59:18 So the same thing with your breath: you can come back to that. The more you train your attention, like you train a muscle, the more you're able to then regulate, ground, and be in this kind of aligned state where everything that you say becomes a expression of your higher self, I would say.
59:41 Alex Shevelenko: So, I guess what you're saying is there are some things that are really deeply foundational.
59:48 Natalie Glebova: I would say so. There's a reason why yogic practices have been around for thousands of years, and I really fell in love with yoga when I started practicing it.
1:00:00 It helps.
1:00:04 Alex Shevelenko: How do you feel? Is there a difference, you know, as you look at yourself when you were starting out and you look at other folks on the journey... is there a difference when you're in the early stages and it's like, "I'm stressed and this is my way of relieving stress"—which is probably where most people start—all the way to what I think you're describing now, which is "This is my way of being, this is how I'm present"?
1:00:39 Natalie Glebova: Yeah, just training yourself.
1:00:41 Alex Shevelenko: Is it a "practice makes perfect" type of thing?
1:00:45 Natalie Glebova: Yes, it's practice.
1:00:46 It's consistency.
1:00:48 It's continuously recognizing that you are a breathing, sensing human being in this three-dimensional reality, but there's also so much more to you than just your physical and mental dimensions.
1:01:06 And once you find your way there—
1:01:10 And I do this exercise with my clients where I kind of ask them to find, if they were a piece of fruit, where would the seed be?
1:01:18 So kind of like finding the center point of your body, but it's not even in your body.
1:01:24 And then you really discover this huge dimension of yourself that is non-physical.
1:01:30 And once you can tap into that, you really cannot ever forget your way back there.
1:01:36 Perhaps it might take a few more guided sessions to come back there, but once you have, and you start living from that space, communicating from that space, doing everything from that space... imagine how much more effective, beautiful, and authentic you show up in the world.
1:01:56 Alex Shevelenko: So what happens when, you know—and maybe I'm not as sophisticated on this journey—but what happens when you slip?
1:02:04 Especially with your current set of awareness, right?
1:02:08 Let's say you're in this beautiful place, and then something external happens.
1:02:15 And for argument's sake, Natalie, or some version of Natalie, is in a screaming match over something that causes you not to be the version of yourself that's the breathing, ever-present, connected version.
1:02:33 How do you... do you feel guilty a little bit about that?
1:02:39 How do you make peace with that?
1:02:42 How do you reconcile that version of yourself with what we just talked about?
1:02:46 Natalie Glebova: Right, if I slip up and I end up yelling at someone—which hardly ever happens these days because I've learned to regulate myself and make a pause between emotion and reaction—but even when it comes to just having a bad day...
1:03:08 I have to say, I had a really bad day, and this morning was terrible because I went through a relationship crisis and ultimately it didn't work out, so I'm heartbroken.
1:03:21 And I feel that I could have just completely ruined my own day by being in this negative space, but because I trained myself to allow the emotions to pass through me and feel what I'm feeling when it comes to sadness, grief, anger... yeah, I just let it.
1:03:40 Usually they say—I don't know if it's scientific enough, but from what I heard, maybe it's pseudoscience—that 90 seconds is all it takes for an emotion to fully complete its cycle.
1:03:51 So if you can just stay with it for even 90 seconds and allow it to process, to move through its cycle, then you are doing it in a healthy way.
1:04:05 And then you can return back to your state of gratitude and still finding joy and miracles in everything, which I have been doing all day long, even with my sadness.
1:04:17 Alex Shevelenko: Got it.
1:04:18 Alex Shevelenko: By the way, it didn't feel like you were sad on this call, right?
1:04:21 So that supports it, right?
1:04:24 You definitely felt... so what you're saying is you accept that emotion, it happens, but you just let it flow through.
1:04:32 You don't resist it, you don't fight it, it goes through you, and then...
1:04:38 Natalie Glebova: Yeah, in a healthy way. Of course I'm tempted to get on social media just to scroll or to do something to distract myself, but I really give myself just 90 seconds where I sit, I breathe, I feel, and if tears come, I let them come.
1:04:57 I've had to deal with some emotions where rage came, and I locked myself in my room and I screamed into a pillow and I punched the pillow—like, I've done that.
1:05:06 That's part of the inner work, and so I think it's important to do that.
1:05:13 Alex Shevelenko: That sounds super evolved.
1:05:16 So from where you are now, right... imagine you're me, right?
1:05:20 I have this 15-year-old girl and 13-year-old girl. You know, I'm a little bit more evolved now than I used to be, obviously, and I'm trying to impart some of these wisdoms, but they don't want to hear stuff from their dad or their mom. They kind of need to make their own mistakes, as we discussed, and create their identities and break them.
1:05:44 How do you feel like, as a mom yourself, or advice that you could give maybe for me... how could I do a better job supporting these kids that are entrusted to me?
1:05:57 Natalie Glebova: Wow, that's such a wonderful thing that you're even asking this, because it shows that you want to be a great dad and that you want to be a better mentor for them and a better example.
1:06:07 And yeah, I would say leading by example is always the best way, because I think our children will not do as we say, they will do as we do.
1:06:18 And kids are much more intelligent in terms of picking up energies and intuitiveness, so they will always sense if you're holding back or if you're resisting, or if you are repressing or suppressing something, right?
1:06:36 I think kids feel it on some level.
1:06:39 So if you start living with an open heart and you start to process your emotions and go inwards and find those moments of stillness, they will on some level intuitively feel you, and it will heal not only yourself, but I believe it heals seven generations back and forwards.
1:07:02 Alex Shevelenko: And that kind of relates to a broader question that I'm asking myself now.
1:07:09 Once you go on this journey... right, like one of the reasons I actually invited you on the podcast is because it felt very clear that you're on a journey and you're making amazing strides and sharing your lessons. And there's a part of me that wants to meet other people that are on a similar journey—whether they're entrepreneurs that seem to have accomplished a lot without having become like horrible humans, controlled by whatever external things, or beautiful people inside and out in academia and in other areas of life.
1:07:58 So I think there's a conscious desire for me to expand my circle to some people who are on a similar journey, and with the people who are maybe not, or we haven't discussed that with them—whether they're parents or friends—to go deeper and to kind of not engage in a shallow la-la thing, if possible, if there is an appetite, to kind of be more authentic, be more real.
1:08:22 You know, be yourself and try to get a more real, deeply authentic connection with those folks.
1:08:32 How do you think about this, right?
1:08:32 Are you selecting more of who you spend time with in your social circle as you're evolving? And then how are you challenging or dealing with your mom, for example, who may still feel that you need to achieve something back from the Soviet days, right?
1:08:53 Natalie Glebova: For sure, there's still some of that, but now I'm conscious of it, and I'm aware when I'm trying to seek validation or if I'm doing things just for the sake of validation versus for the sake of the fact that it's aligned to me.
1:09:08 So there's a distinction there, of course, but to your question about the circle of communication and your circle of friends: I wouldn't say I'm selective, it's just that naturally at some point you value smaller circles with deeper connections, right? Because shallow things don't really excite you anymore.
1:09:31 Right, small talk or conversations about material things or people who are interested in collecting more material things just don't interest you anymore naturally.
1:09:42 So you end up having a smaller circle of friends, but with deeper, more profound conversations, deeper soul connections, and much more fulfillment.
1:09:53 I think it's more fulfilling.
1:09:55 Alex Shevelenko: It's less about winning the popularity contest and connecting with maximum people.
1:10:00 Natalie Glebova: Yeah, when we were younger, it was about that.
1:10:06 Do you find that to be true now, that your circle is smaller?
1:10:10 Alex Shevelenko: You know, it's interesting. As an entrepreneur, I don't think so. I think there's a way that I need to be broad.
1:10:27 But it is definitely deeper.
1:10:30 Natalie Glebova: Good.
1:10:31 Alex Shevelenko: That is for sure, and it's very deliberate. I find that as a friend... and it's maybe easier to do it as a friend than it is sometimes as a parent or as a partner, but as a friend, I find like, "Oh wow, my friend has a problem, they're going through a divorce or they're going through some tough challenge. How can I be of service?"
1:11:05 But interestingly, through their journeys, through listening to them, I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm doing these stupid things in my relationships," you know? So it's really helping me as well. Without the original intent—which is to kind of just hear them and be there for them—because I'm processing what they're going through. And if they're being real, they're not hiding behind "everything is hunky-dory" and "crushing it" and whatever is the social mindset of achievers, or whatever is the Instagram setting, right?
1:11:40 Like we're all in these beautiful places, living our best life and looking stunning.
1:11:48 If you can go behind that, and if you have the privilege to have the relationships where you go behind that—
1:11:55 Alex Shevelenko: It's powerful, right?
1:11:57 I think that kind of feels more valuable.
1:12:03 And we're trying to do it at work; we're trying to create a culture where we can be real, but I think it takes effort, right?
1:12:12 It takes deliberation.
1:12:14 It feels a little luxurious to do it sometimes, because you're like, "Oh, we need to survive, we need to do this, we need to..." right?
1:12:22 So I kind of have to remind myself to go deeper in some relationships that are not necessarily... maybe there's a power imbalance, maybe I have more power in the relationship, so it's not as simple.
1:12:38 I need to be thoughtful about how I use that. So I don't know how to answer it, but as an entrepreneur, I don't think you can stop and just say, "I'm going to only talk to three people really deeply." If you want to have an impact in the world, I think you need to find that balance.
1:13:00 But yeah, I get excited when I feel like there's somebody who is on their journey that I can connect to.
1:13:16 Natalie Glebova: Yeah, I find that vulnerability is very attractive to me, because it shows that this person is open and courageous. Sometimes it takes courage to open yourself up and reveal certain thoughts, feelings, and emotions.
1:13:34 And to me, this is probably one of the most attractive things in all people: friends, partners, business partners, right?
1:13:44 Alex Shevelenko: Yeah, we're taught not to be that, and certainly for men, it's a little bit more frowned upon, in my sense, than for women.
1:13:54 But I look at... I think it was Alain de Botton or someone who said that if you want to connect with people who went through something hard, who have been hit by life and come out on the other side, I think that's a much more interesting, deeper opportunity to experience something. And that does come with age, because we all have trauma when we're early—that's true—but we probably don't realize it.
1:14:31 It's unconscious how we cope with it, right?
1:14:34 We find ways to succeed with it, but we don't work through the implications of that until typically our 30s, 40s, 50s, all the way to the end, so there's something around that.
1:14:49 It feels like the more you create an environment where people can share that and feel like that won't be used against them...
1:15:03 That feels special and safe, and I don't know if our modern world is set up for that, right?
1:15:12 It takes a lot of deliberation and doing your own self-work. For example, I noticed that at some point I was using... it was very embarrassingly like I was using my power in the family as a man, as a provider, or whatever, to get things my way.
1:15:38 And when I realized how stupid that was and how much distance that creates, it was really hard, right? Because part of it—I guess privilege is the word—was unconscious, right?
1:15:59 It was just very instinctively, "Here's how I get my way."
1:16:04 And so I think that's where I need more work, in helping myself create that safe environment, whether it's for the kids, right?
1:16:19 Because it's very easy to tell the kids, "That's the rules, that's the way it is, and that's how it's done," or "I got it, don't worry."
1:16:28 So we take on those things.
1:16:30 What do you think? What have you been finding around that—getting your way at the risk of the relationship and connection with others?
1:16:46 Natalie Glebova: Well, you have to know what your hard boundaries and your dealbreakers are in any relationship.
1:16:56 And I believe in not judging people and loving people unconditionally, but still having those boundaries in place so it doesn't cross over into chipping away at your own self-love.
1:17:13 Of course, certain relationships can chip away at your identity in a good way, because they can help you have an ego death and then reveal the real you.
1:17:25 But then there are also some things that you should not allow, because that's your feeling of self-worth.
1:17:31 And if a person makes you feel invaluable or not worthy for just being who you are, then those are the hard boundaries that I draw.
1:17:43 Alex Shevelenko: And that's true, that's maybe a beautiful way to start wrapping up.
1:17:49 So if we kind of go through your journey, right... it sounds like there was a weak boundary at the beginning, right? Because whatever other people were doing was defining Natalie, right?
1:18:08 It meant a lot to you. And now you've achieved everything, but you now have a boundary where whatever social media says, whatever other people say, whatever your mom says about where you should be at this stage, whatever the relationship standards are... this is me, and I'm going to be OK, and I've got this.
1:18:41 Am I getting that right, that that's the lesson—establishing boundaries?
1:18:46 Natalie Glebova: Yes, we're moving in the right trajectory, that's for sure. We're on the right path as long as you are, as I said, doing your inner work.
1:18:51 Natalie Glebova: On this journey of self-discovery, you will always notice that you're improving your boundaries, your communication. And also now, when I sometimes get tons of negative comments for whatever reason, it doesn't really faze me anymore as it used to when I was in my twenties—you could see the difference, right?
1:19:11 Alex Shevelenko: Oh, 100%. It's a huge improvement, huge improvement.
1:19:17 Natalie Glebova: And that as well, you know, the validation that I seek from the external world, even from my family... I feel like it has less of an effect, and I start doing things because it's more aligned to me.
1:19:28 And I judge it by: Do I get more energy from it? Do I get more enjoyment, curiosity, excitement? Does it set my soul on fire?
1:19:37 If that helps me, I know that I'm doing the right thing, even if the world tells me no, or if my parents say, "Oh no, you should be choosing the higher road of getting paid more."
1:19:48 So, you know, of course, like anything, there's a balance in everything.
1:19:55 But I just notice myself really coming more and more to myself, to my own internal voice. And with that, my intuition increases, and my ability to make decisions and navigate my life becomes easier.
1:20:12 Alex Shevelenko: So basically your inner strength has increased.
1:20:18 Natalie Glebova: Yeah.
1:20:18 Alex Shevelenko: And then, the kind of... to wrap up, and that's maybe what I was trying to highlight: sometimes there are your boundaries, but there are also boundaries that you project onto other people.
1:20:29 Natalie Glebova: Mhm.
1:20:31 Alex Shevelenko: How does that relate?
1:20:34 Natalie Glebova: Hm, yeah, I think that's something I'm still learning to understand, but we cannot really be responsible for what other people... Of course, we have to respect their boundaries, but we cannot be responsible for how other people feel or react.
1:21:05 And yeah, so as long as we are aware of our boundaries and respect other people's boundaries, and really just understand that we ourselves are the only ones who are responsible for how we feel...
1:21:12 Like, I cannot say "You made me feel mad." I allowed myself to get mad because of what you said, but really, is that your fault? Like, I don't control you, right?
1:21:26 And so if I'm getting angry, I have to take a look again at myself. And the same goes for other people. If I do something that... of course, if I really step on their physical boundaries or whatever emotional boundaries that they told me, then yeah, it could be my fault. But if I made somebody angry, they should take a look at themselves.
1:21:47 Alex Shevelenko: Well, you made me feel wonderful! I'm breaking all the rules. This has been a great, beautiful conversation.
1:21:55 Natalie Glebova: It has been. Thank you for digging in.
1:21:58 Alex Shevelenko: You have a beautiful soul, and thank you for sharing it with us.
1:22:02 Natalie Glebova: Thank you for seeing it. Likewise, I see your beautiful soul and I see how, you know, because we do come from a similar background, it's just so lovely to go back and forth, bounce back, and mirror back to each other what we have been through.
1:22:17 Alex Shevelenko: So if people are intrigued to learn more about Natalie and how to read your book, tell us, how can they find you?
1:22:27 Natalie Glebova: They can go on my website, NatalieGlebova.com, to find the link to my book. It's also on Amazon, Temple of Love.
1:22:35 Alex Shevelenko: I think probably we have the mirror image of it, but yes, we can see it. It definitely looks great.
1:22:42 Natalie Glebova: Yeah, thank you! And you can also find me on social media... just don't expect an instant response, basically!
1:22:52 Alex Shevelenko: Right, right.
1:22:52 Natalie Glebova: But Natalie Glebova across the board on all the platforms, all the channels.
1:22:57 I'm really thinking that I should start a YouTube Live. It's been bubbling up inside of me, so I'm hoping that I can do some of my sessions—which I normally do for my clients—live.
1:23:09 They're kind of like diving deeper into your own inner world, healing yourself, and remembering who you are. So stay tuned for that. I'm almost ready, almost ready to share.
1:23:20 Alex Shevelenko: You're a natural. You're a natural. Natalie, thank you so much for joining us. Have a great, great continued Thai experience, and I hope your day, despite the bad news at the beginning, continues to go on and up.
1:23:38 Natalie Glebova: Lovely to connect.
1:23:39 Alex Shevelenko: You too.